The great thing about this forum is that there are so many new faces on it, and they appear all the time. Yes, this does come up a lot, but every time it comes back, its brought back to a fresh audience – at least in part. If you dont want to read it, then dont!

Philip,

If you want to do what you can for preservation, then get involved! You clearly have a great deal of drive and enthusiasm. Go join your local museum, and do what you can to see these things preserved. Set up your own group if you must, but get involved.

However, next time something gets scrapped, dont come up here and say ‘told you so’, if you havent made an effort yourself. There are only so many of us in the preservation movement, and frankly the numbers are going down not up…

Bruce

RAF Driffield is my life – check out (if you haven’t already) http://www.driffieldaerodrome.co.uk. RAF Driffield is located a few miles from Driffield – not only the Capitol of the Wolds but also the capitol of apathy and indecision. At the moment I’m trying to save the hangars at Driffield from being demolished – the only way forward is to suggest new ways in which these hangars can be employed, like public and private sector document storage. I’m working with Business Link to create a database of potential customers. When not trying to save RAF Driffield, I’m writing about the RAF Fire Service – I’m also working on a DV documentary film on Bomber Command.

If the Comet (one of only five left in the UK) at Lyneham or the last surviving Queen’s Flight Andover or if all of the RAF’s fleet of original No.10 Squadron aircraft are scrapped (without a single example being preserved) I’ll be doing more than say I told you so. We may not have the money, but the least we could do is learn from past mistakes. And if a few people get a little tired of hearing me going on then at least I can in future years say at least “I” tried my best and say “I told you so”.

That classic Documentary 1974 series The World at War was also not without its mistakes. During the episode on the Battle for Stalingrad a two-three second shot of a Me109 was being chased by a Spitfire. But, wait…

…was the Red Air Force given a few Spits???

Phillip, it’s best to do some research before offering judgements like this.

Yes, it (some may argue me) just won’t go away – I mean it was scrapped fifteen years ago. Or is it because we like to rub their noses in it, OR IS IT BECAUSE mistakes like this appear to repeat themselves?

A few months ago I expressed concern that not enough had been done to save Blackburn Beverley XH124, which was scrapped at Hendon in 1990.

Accordingly, I promised to report back after undertaking some research – which included securing details through the newly introduced Freedom of Information Act. Sadly the MoD have yet to respond to my request – this despite 20 working days having lapsed. The RAF Museum were more than helpful in providing photocopies of several, interesting documents. The Imperial War Museum were also helpful, but I’m still awaiting a reply from the Science Museum.

Firstly, minutes of a meeting held by the MoD (Room 243 Northumberland House) on 29th July 1986 detailed the predicament of what to do with this airframe. This document confirms that the aircraft was in poor condition – but not reversible or terminal, though neither party were able or willing to pay for work needed to fully restore the aircraft.

However, It was recommended that the aircraft be offered to either the Science Museum or IWM. This suggestion was made by the RAF Museum themselves. The aircraft would have been offered FREE to either museum with the proviso that the aircraft be removed to either Duxford or Wroughton and that all costs of transportation and restoration be paid for by the new owners of XH124. However, it appears that this recommendation was not acted upon. Now, I’m still awaiting news from the Science Museum, but the IWM say they were never offered XH124. In all honesty even if both museums were offered this aircraft, I doubt if either of them would have had the ability or stamina to acquired it. Now it maybe possible that the IWM did not receive a communication from the MoD regarding XH124, but from the RAF Museum (even though they didn’t own XH124)

The minutes to this meeting include a comment made by the RAF Museum who asked that if the Beverley were to be scrapped that the MoD be responsible for answering questions from the public. The Chairman reminded the members of the sensitivity of the issue and asked them to treat the matter on a need to know basis.

It must be noted that XH124 remained the property of the MoD until 23rd Jan 1990 when the aircraft was transferred to Hainingfield Metals. According to the MoD the responsibility of maintaining XH124 remained with the RAF Museum, though.

On August 19th 1986 Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Armitage KCB CBE RAF wrote to the Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Michael Beetham, GCB CBE DFC AFC FRAeS concerning the future of Beverley XH124.

In this letter, which covered several topics, Sir Armitage confirmed that: “the aircraft [XH124] is certainly run down – largely it must be said because of many years neglect by the [RAF] Museum.” Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Armitage KCB CBE RAF goes on to detail the poor condition of the aircraft and the inability of the RAF to restore the airframe which would require around 28,000 man hours.

“All the tyres are flat and largely because of water leaks have not been attended to. There is a great deal of internal corrosion. But the only obvious area in which this poses an imminent structural danger to the aircraft (as a static exhibit) is caused by the deterioration of one undercarriage beam. We believe, however, that spare wheels, tyres and an undercarriage beam are available, so that with some cooking of the books we should be able to restore the aircraft to a safe condition.“

The letter expresses concern that in order to undertake a full restoration the aircraft would need to be moved off-site and the costs involved are or rather were beyond what could be expended on such a project. The letter advises that:

“We are left then with only two possibilities for the RAF Museum Beverley. Either we cut it up; or we restore its structural safety and tow it the short distance required for it to stay within the long-term Museum perimeter. In the latter case, which I am sure we all strongly favour, it would then be necessary for the museum to accept the responsibility for completely the anti-deterioration work that should have been done long ago, such as drilling drain holes, taping off hatches and panels, and spraying internally with oil.”

Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Armitage KCB CBE RAF added: “I would certainly be happy to provide expert advice on an appropriate schedule of work.”

Now the killer paragraph: “What we could do would be to call for genuine volunteers from within the Service to come and help, and we could encourage contributions from training projects, at Halton for instance. If the RAF Museum adopted the same approach with local aircraft preservation societies and perhaps with interested groups of ex-servicemen, and then a firm effort to co-ordinate and direct the work properly my advice is that the aircraft would be safe for 5-10 years and perhaps for even longer.” THIS FROM A SENIOR STAFF OFFICER

At the time the RAF Museum at Hendon was large enough to have accommodated a temporary scaffold structure needed to house the Blackburn Beverley. This would have resolved the need to move the aircraft – thus saving thousands of pounds. We knew even then that such large aircraft could be refurbished by volunteers – the Duxford Aviation Society and its volunteer proves that. Even if a full restoration couldn’t have been undertaken at that time – the aircraft could have survived if remedial work recommended by the MoD was undertaken – resulting in the aircraft surviving into the late 1990s – just in time for the introduction of the National Lottery. Any concerted effort made by such a national institution – backed by the MoD would in my opinion would have saved this aircraft – sooner rather than later…

Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Armitage KCB CBE RAF concluded: “I hope that this helps: it certainly seems to be to be a positive way forward after the neglect the aircraft has suffered. [SNIP] It would be therefore be a great help to the Engineers (responsible for moving the aircraft onto RAF Museum land) if the Museum could let me know as soon as possible whether they accept my suggestion. I am therefore copying this letter to Dr Tanner.”

Although I now acknowledge that the aircraft was in poor condition – expert advice at the time suggested that the aircraft could have been save through the use of volunteer help – a suggestion which was not acted upon. Although I do not have a full set of documents pertaining to this issue, I would hope that the fate of XH124 would have been revaluated following the scrapping of the Blackburn Beverley at Southend Airport in late 1989. Even if there was no hope at the time I would have argued for the aircraft to have been carefully dismantled, crated and stored onsite (behind the Bomber Hall).

NOW I know this subject has been exhausted by most and were all tired of this or rather me going on about it, BUT what lessons were learnt from the scrapping of XH124? How many Britannia, Comet, Belfast, Trident, Victor, Vanguard, Viscount aircraft have we lost or rather have been scrapped – those which were either earmarked for preservation or at least should have been saved because their numbers are so low. But what of the future? Whose going to preserve an RAF VC10 Or the C130 – has any been earmarked for preservation. What about the last surviving Queen’s Flight Andover or the Comet at Lyneham?

I go on because someone has to – there being more to life than Flying Legends or RIAT or pretty little shinny American aeroplanes, that look so cool and anyway who cares if its British and Big and, oh look another P51D Mustage – “Sorry, what were you saying….”.

The main problem is one of access. The Best complete former bomber base is RAF West Raynham in Norfolk (still owned by the MoD). Also try, Driffield (no runways or control tower), Swinderby is fairly complete, Newton (Nr Nottingham), Syerston is quite complete but still in operation. Hemswell is good for showing you how NOT to preserve a 1930s RAF camp, Mandy near Louth is good for showing you how to preserve a 1930s RAF camp. If you have your own transport, then you can spend a good two months visiting most airfield in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire pertaining to bomber command. Check Out http://www.driffieldaerodrome.co.uk for further details on RAF Driffield.

That explains a lot :diablo: 😀 :p

I know 🙁 sob sob sob

Which part of “we are doing a final decant prior to AirSpace building work commencing” do you not understand, Phillip? :confused:

We are a bit touchy today, darling – that time of the month? :diablo:

Sorry for not reading every word on every message – my mistake 😮

On the subject of AirSpace – Duxford. Have they started work on the building yet? What’s the latest?