I’m sure someone had to pull a lot of strings to get the Thunderbirds moving.:D

I got that joke. Just thought I’d let you know, in case you felt like you were left…hanging…:D

russian news and military statements claim this year the PAK FA will make its first flight, in 2007!

I would be extremely interested in making a friendly wager with you on this claim. 🙂

Why Su-37? The type was not even marketed.

You, of course, could simply take Su-30MKI, which is roughly as manoeuvrable as the 37 and fielded in rather large numbers, but hey, why be objective if you can rant, right?

I’m being completely objective. If you actually read what I said, fanboys on this forum still point to the Su-37 as the pinnacle of fighter-tech achievement, even though it was never anything more than a demonstrator — which, as you yourself said, is not the same thing as a production level fighter. That’s what I was responding to. If it was the MKI that MiG-23MLD, Firebar, and others (note that I’m not including you among them) were constantly having wet dreams about, then that would be different. Indeed, the fact that they sing about the -37 and not the MKI reinforces my point, and yours, by the way…if you’d care to be as objective as you demand from others.

To quote Tom Clancy: “Say what you want about the Russians…they do build ’em pretty.”

That’s what a fighter is supposed to look like.

Believe what you want, I’m not going to stop you, but unlike gravity and the wind, you don’t have a shred of evidence for your belief. I wonder how long it will take that someone older come and starts claiming that cobra was performed in 60-ies by the F-104 then you would probably believe him too. I doubt he remembers a …., when he played with a duck during that time.:rolleyes:

That the YF-17 routinely performed a maneuver which today would immediately be recognized as the cobra is not a “belief,” it is a fact. The Northrop team referred to it as the “hang and look.” Your pompous and dismissive attitude is sadly typical of those who just cannot comprehend a reality in which their beloved Flanker is not the be-all and end-all of aerodynamic achievement. There is documentation online if you’d care to bother yourself to actually consider an opposing viewpoint (a shockingly new and alien concept for some people) at:

http://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=406&gTable=mtgpaper&gID=92066

Unfortunately, that article isn’t free, and I’m not personally inclined to contribute $25 to your education.

Why are some folks here reacting with such dismissive attitudes at the thought of the Soviets at least taking a close look at Iranian F-14s? I have no idea if they did or not, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me. America would have done the same thing (indeed, we have done so on several occasions). Why do some of you think it’s such an outrageous idea?

Meat

Why you distorts what i am saying?

First the only thing i am saying as far as evidence it is concerned, the Western sources show little evidence that the F-15 and F-16 have killed so many aircraft and they show no proof SAMs have killed their aircraft, as far it is concerned the West also engage in Propaganda as Russia does and so far they have not proved with a lot of pictorial evidence the kill records they claim;)

Don’t take it personally, MiG – it was meant as a humorous, tongue in cheek remark.

But the fact is, the overwhelming majority of sources (worldwide) all say the same thing…no F-15 has ever been lost air-to-air. And the few (very few) who claim otherwise have produced absolutely zero evidence. The old saying goes, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” I could claim to you that aliens came to my house yesterday and took me on a tour of Zeta Reticuli. But I doubt you’d believe me if I didn’t have some sort of proof. And you wouldn’t be convinced if I responded “Prove that I didn’t get abducted by aliens.”

In my opinion (and that’s all it is, my opinion), you tend to believe stories about air-to-air kills which have questionable sources. Remember the claim about the Hind shooting down an F-14? You jumped on to that one right away, and tried to convince everyone here that it was real. True, to your credit, you admitted your mistake afterwards. Some people on this forum never admit they’re wrong (cough-Firebar-cough), but you did. However, from day one it was pretty clear that the photo was altered, and yet you believed it immediately. And that’s the point I’m trying to make. Again, this is just my opinion; I don’t know you. But it seems to me that perhaps you’re so anxious to find information about Western aircraft losses, that when one comes along you believe it first, and then study it objectively later. Perhaps it should be the other way around.