Whatever

Hi Avro – you are a bit of a stirrer yourself – I will be at Leg ends – I hope to catch up with you and some of the others like David and Fuji for a drink – could have a great time at the Red Lion – would be nice – You could always mount me on a pole at the gate at Dux as an example to all of we colonials !!! LOL

Regards
John

Hi all

I think it’s been good and healthy to debate the issues here – I don’t think anybody should be upset with this.

John

Hi Bruce

Glad to hear from you again – I will quell those rummors now- good to see you got off with a warning !!

“Over here, we can restore aircraft as quickly, efficiently, and to as high a standard as anywhere. The reason, the only reason, that the shops in Oz and NZ are so full is money. Au$ are cheap, NZ$ are cheaper. If the pound fell in value by a half tomorrow, you would see a collossal swing back to us.”

Yes exactly and I also think the legislation and a healthy distrust of foreign restorations are minor considerations – Far easier to get pommie paperwork through – but yes read my coments I never suggested that UK work was any lesser quality – I absolutely agree with your point here – it’s mostly money. Good on us and the Kiwis I say for having such crap exchange rates – please send food parcels – no on second thoughts send restraunt vouchers !!!!

“Sure, the legislation side is an issue, but most of the well established shops have a handle on it, and there would be nothing to stop us doing restoration work here for US customers who were going the N-reg route.”

Agree completely – but you are really stuffed on price again at present

“At the end of the day, it is always down to money – and that is the prime reason for the decay in our restoration business.”

Agree completely – again the perception is the legislation and Insurance issues may not be factual but it is being percieved that way from afar

“Incidentally, I choose very carefully the discussions I participate in; I have had one or two spirited ones, have changed my mind in others, but have never been tempted to throw in the towel. I certainly value your input, even if I dont necessarily agree with it, and would hate to see you walk away over such an issue!”

Back up the posts a little – I will never leave here – just busy sometimes lately – 3 jobs at once will do that- I value your professional input above a lot of others – again I don’t always agree either but you know your stuff and are well worth listening to – I just would like everybody to give each other the same respect we do – again agree completely

Kindest regards John

Hi David

“Setter – I have a few years of experience in sourcing Beaufighter parts. The current situation is that the TFC machine is actively underway whilst the Skysport machine has been available for a couple of years. “

Thanks David – I visit them once or twice a year

“It’s not a case of parties in Australia doing it quicker or better.”

I beg to differ but it won’t happen so it’s a moot point – Not on quality which is not in doubt but speed

“If that option really existed I am sure that it would have been considered.”

Ditto

“The pace of the TFC Beaufighter is decidedly in their control. I cannot help but think that their output has been fairly prolific in the last decade. “

Depends what your benchmark is in any case I have nothing but respect and admiration for Stephen and Pete and the rest of his crew – My point was that because of their schedule of works why not outsource the Beau like the Fiat and others have been.

“Where does the desire to see a Beaufighter in the air quickly come from? I have never heard a Beaufighter running but I certainly have the ability to be patient.”

I have and you will never forget it plus the sight of such a big brute being thrown around is something I would love to see. Purely selfish on my part I admit it

“As for differing standards in restoration and paperwork. Well I can think of at least one example of an aircraft coming to the U.K and being found somewhat wanting.”

Couldn’t agree more and it was a sobering experiance for them and has taken a long time to put right. The point I would make has more to do with provinance which is absolute rubbish in most cases as you should understand – most of these things are new aircraft masquarading in Sham identities. A duff provinance has never killed a pilot – duff work has and no country has a monopoly on that.

“It’s not a matter of thinking that the U.K is ruled by pointless paperwork – it’s about
pilot’s lives being at risk and not cutting corners for a speedy outcome.”

Not at all what I suggested – to the contrary – spread the workload so things happen but at multiple locations – They are already doing this with the Fiat and quite a few others over the years

“Whilst you mourn the people who have left the forum – I cannot help but think that it’s entirely their own decision if they click the mouse in the direction of Flypast or indeed any other website.”

I mourn the loss of information , collective knowledge, experiance and true friends I have made here over the years these are things that once lost are gone forever – it takes very little effort to be polite and civil and inclusive – tolerate others views and attitudes and accept that sometimes one is not the recepticle of all accumulated knowledge. People don’t choose to leave they choose not to participate because others don’t value their contribution as they should and that their point of view is discarded in an instant. I choose not to leave as I still value the contribution people make but there are days ……..

One last thing – I am extreamly irritated in the notion that in some way I don’t value the UK scene and the fantastic efforts made by TFC, HFC , Ray Hanna and all the other collectors and restorers – I choose to come to the UK as often as I can because I do appreciate Duxford and everything that happens there and all over the UK – but that doesn’t disqualify me from offering alternate views or constructive comment – in fact it reinforces my comitment to offer it because I do care and I want to see it grow and thrive.

Regards
John

Fuji

I think I just said did I not that I don’t take my bat? Is this about Warbirds or Bear baiting?

I don’t necessarily have a lot of time to do this at present – but Hey whats else to do at 7am before I retire to my armchair at work for the day

Judy Pay- Well this is actually the second P40 – the first one went to NZ RNAFM , Also turned out a P51 recently and a Vampire and lots else going on so I think they can be forgiven and the P40 has priority now.

HARS Beaufighter. Well if it wasn’t for these guys most of the worlds Beaufighter population wouldn’t exist and they have a Connie, 2 Neptunes and about 30 other aircraft and one hell of a museum to show for why they haven’t- yet completed this Beau – it isn’t a priority just like the Dux one.

On the other hand as you say the others you mention are just going about it at their own pace.

I don’t understand why we all get away from the point I was trying to make – You could do the UK Beaus quicker than is happening here – I really don’t think theres much argument about that and as for the UK being no harder to get an aircraft flying then how is it that these machines fly perfectly legally elsewhere in the world without incident. In the UK some anal retentive frustrates things to to point of disfunction and then you guys all defend it – Monty Python didn’t cease – it just took over aviation in the UK!!

Please don’t assume that because I am a long way away or work in a day job that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I am familiar with the dimenstioal , 4 vs 3 blade and all the other issues of the Hercules / Beau design. I have made it my business to study all of this and talk to people. I have 40 years active interest in all of this and a fair bit of hands on through that as well. I currently choose to do this for fun and thats why I am passionate about it but a lot of other people who come and GO from here have a lot more knowledge than they reveal as well.

On UK costs – The average cost of labour in the UK (My current professional interest) is about 45% higher than Aus and lower again by10% in NZ and I don’t care who you are in the UK hopefully you pay staff award wages and that is likely your biggest coast both in direct salary and in parts costs from suppliers. Over the time of a Beau restoration thats a lot of money.

Any way I have a sense of humor and a thick skin so keep going guys this is at least mildly amusing

Regards
John

Hi David

The biggest thing in all of this is the the capability , lots of jigs etc are available now to do it as well as the stores holding – the decision was made to go with the Beaufort not a Beaufighter a long time ago and now we see a Beaufort nearing completion but the basic engineering etc are the same. I fully understand all the engine /prop issues but nothing is insurmountable.

After nearly 20 years I would just like to have seen more happen with these UK projects thats all – the truth is the UK is slowly pricing itself out of restorations and the vested interests and overbearing legislators are putting your operators out of business by making it impossible to operate forign restored equipment in a sensible way – yes there are exceptions but a lot of stuff doesn’t fly much anymore or has left the country – don’t get me wrong here I am a fan and i want all of this to happen. What is wrong with getting someone here with the experiance and resources to finish off a pommie Beaufighter project i don’t get the point – in any case this is all just hypothetical and wouldn’t happen so It’s just an interesting discussion,

John