…”probably,”… “at least,”… “fairly high” along with a bunch of assumptions (Which may or may not be correct, but don’t actually address the questions i put to you despite your bravado in trying to make it look as if your response does answer them.)
So you’ve got no solid data then.
Edit: I now see you are actually asking other people how many aircraft have been shot down over the Ukraine.
Yes, I’ve lost count because there’s been a lot but I think I’ve answered your questions.
Yet you are happy to make strong statements which must rely upon knowledge of just that data to be supported.
LOL. Stop trolling. Just because I’ve not been keeping count, I haven’t failed to notice there’s been a lot. Qualitative vs quantitative assessment.
Two Su-25s were at 17,000ft and 3 in total as of 1 month ago.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0723/Fighter-jets-shot-down-How-many-planes-has-Ukraine-lost-video
Another Su-25 since
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/08/03/donetsk-militia-ukrainian-su-25-fighter-plane-shot-down.html
One in June
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=513099
Two MiG-29s
http://news.yahoo.com/separatists-shoot-down-ukrainian-mig-29-fighter-plane-074149029.html;_ylt=A9mSs3GXM_JTqlMA48lLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWJ1c203BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw–
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b1a_1407500572
You see it’s messy, easier to just say, shed loads. List isn’t by any means exhaustive.

Mainly necessity in terms of range. Historically all missiles were frontal hemisphere only and more of less dead ahead at that. IR missiles were generally short range, so only needed LOBL, whereas RF missiles were long range so required LOAL.
An exception would be the R-40T/TD employed on MiG-25s. Could well be the missile that scored the only F-15 kill.
Seems the R-24T on MiG-23s was another early LOAL IR missile.
At last!
Turkey is quietly aiding the IS while superficially objecting to them. Don’t trust Turkey in this exercise.
I don’t think they’re that stupid. I think Turkey of all countries should recognise the potential for such assistance to backfire spectacularly.
That would aid reconnaissance depending on SAM range but any targets for A2G duty are likely to be inside the SAM coverage area.
How many planes have been shot down in Ukraine now? Must be near double digits.
Low flying? Accident?
According to Reuters, it was a MiG-29.
Anything that can be seen is vulnerable. Any word on altitude?
better use drones then
Not great in contested airspace if we’re talking about Reapers etc.
Actually I remembered the F-35 will have blue force tracking and it also beams it’s sensor data to the guys on the ground. The next logical step (and I find people always invent these ideas before me) is for the guys on the ground to designate targets directly from the f-35’s own sensor footage. SDB here, 2000lber here, press the fire button. Got more vehicle targets than the f-35 overhead has bombs? just assign them to the other f-35 50miles out carrying 24SDB’s, 24 targets destroyed simultaneously. No need for laser designation with its trimode seeker.
IIRC the F-35 can also detect artillery fire and potentially other stuff too.
Clearly, you weren’t paying attention.
Huh. Well funny how I’ve managed to notice the effect of SAMs in Ukraine over a very short period of a few months (and Syria) but missed their supposed use in a 12 year long campaign. I can very quickly find pictures and videos of MANPADS and SAMs being used in Syria and Ukraine but when it comes to Afghanistan I’m left with footnotes on Wiki Leaks and references to Wiki Leaks from mainstream media. Clearly scarcely there at all. Possibly just RPGs mistaken for MANPADS. If it misses, how can you tell the difference anyway? Go and ask the person who fired it?
Another fighter downed today in Ukraine. So much for A-10/Su-25 type aircraft.
Not really.
The A-10 is superior for CAS and COIN simply because of its ability to take damage and requiring little maintenance. For sustained operations in areas where air superiority is won the A-10 is and will be a superb choice even in the future.
In all other areas, like airspaces where the enemy is expected to contest the airspace, the A-10 is among the worst platforms second to helicopters.
For instance, when leading CAS/COIN aircraft it is pretty common to mark areas with smoke. Sometimes there are two different colors on the smoke markers. This means the pilots have to get down to visual range so they can orient themselves before engaging the enemy. An IR-system doesnt see the colors so even the F35 would have to get close. Yes, there are laser designators, yes, GPS has been around… but to this day CAS/COIN are usually lead in by radio and visual ques.
It’s likely that a GPS/laser mark will just be translated by to a visual cue on the helmet, possibly along with the position of friendlies.
In a scenario where the target is moving (like tanks are) and the targets have laser warning, the aircraft performing CAS has to be close enough to identify the individual tanks. The F35 will be able to perform this, but I would personally prefer it higher up performing DEAD and counter air and leaving this type of engagement to an aircraft that can survive being hit by the enemy.
SAR plus Brimstone will do the job. If necessary to use a laser for discrimination, it can be left until the very last moment. At least a dozen targets can be engaged simultaneously, which is far better than any capability the A-10 had in that respect.
I also expect guided cannon ammunition will make a debut later on, allowing high shooting accuracy from 10,000ft if necessary.
You could have taken those five minutes yourself. You didn’t.
MANPADS use in Afghanistan received quite some coverage in the general media around the Wikileaks furore.
Clearly not that much, or I wouldn’t have had to ask. More helicopters crashed themselves than were hit by MANPADS.
The record distance for a tank-to-tank kill is 5,100m and it’s held by a 120mm rifled cannon belonging to a Challenger.
In fact we seem to hold all the records for unguided distance kills at the moment. Sniper record too – 2,475m.
Uhurrr. All depends which way you want to swing it. Perhaps the MANPADS and SAM operators were just as inexperienced as the pilots were or weren’t. At the end of the day, detectable aircraft can be hit, simple as that.
Or maybe the trained portion of the Ukrainian air force deserted after February.
Thanks for illustrating how easily the data I mentioned could be found on the Internet. I pointed out a source, and you quickly tracked it down.
But at this point Lukos simply declares the stuff you have found to be irrelevant – the same trick he tried to pull in posting 1045.
So easy you spent 10 posts before someone else found it.
The last report on the subject of Ukrainian Air Force combat readiness to cross my desk assessed it as “mediocre”, and quoted the then deputy commander (Lieutenant General Vasily Nikiforov) as having stated in September 2009 that all live fire air-to-air and surface-to-air missile exercises planned for that year had been cancelled, and that only 30% of his pilots were considered to be combat ready. Annual flying time in 2011 was reported to be only 12 hours for many pilots, and about 19 for pilots assigned to the Joint Rapid Reaction Forces.
The GlobalSecurityOrg website paints an equally poor picture.
The archive on the Ukrainian AF website does not extend back to 2009, but an internet search might turn up some contemporary press reports of Nikiforov’s statements.
In April 2014, the International Institute for Strategic Studies described Ukrainian aircraft availability and serviceability levels as low. “Problems with serviceability, and an enforced policy of storing a significant number of airframes, mean the total available combat fleet will be substantially smaller than the overall total”, it stated. However it reported that JRRF aircrew had seen a major increase in flying hours in recent years, and were now averaging more than 60 hours/yr.
Lieutenant-General Serhiy Drozdov, First Deputy Commander of the Ukrainian Air Force is due to speak at the September 16 – 18 Military Airlift conference in London, and could provide some useful information on the state and likely future of Ukraine’s military transport force.
Well it’s likely the 30% ‘combat ready’ pilots were sent out. And whilst critiquing the experience of the pilots, we should also take a look at the experience of MANPADS and SAM operators. All in all, things are balanced experience-wise.
Is the Tornado in this report using afterburner at 1:37 while refuelling?
Illusion caused by IR camera I think.