VX927[QUOTE=VTTSCM;1221651]
VTTSCM.
VTTSCM. Congratulations… When was the compass swing done?
As I understand it an interim swing was done at Brunty which was sufficient for test flying…full recalibration when she flys again,
Ah… So it’s not finished…
therefore she is finished & works..
And it’s therefore… It’s not in “Full working order” I know it’s an insignificant point that I’ve raised, but it just frustrates me that you can come on here and defend it they way you have. The reality of what you are saying is that the lottery gave £2.7million to put the Vulcan back to the state it was before TVOC, VTTS, Walton, the Brunty Boys, (call it what you like) pulled her apart in the first place.
For your info.. as an ex-BAH Volunteer I can tell you she was far from in “Full Working Order” there were systems on her that had stopped working and she was carrying a number of faults
After all… She was in “Full working order” when she arrived at Bruntingthorpe.
She wasn’t, she needed a Major as she only had 11 flying hours left .
When she went into the hangar 7yrs later she was not in anywhere near in full working order
The point is you’re splitting hairs. It might say “to full working order”, but to me and the average man of the street, that mans flying… At least to the point where she has a permit.
That was not, as I understand it, the HLF’s take on the situation, by their definition..“Full Working Order” was complete just short of flight.
If you go back and read through the thread properly, I don’t think you’ll find anyone objecting to the cost of qualified engineers… Engineers cost what they cost. nothing you can do about that. But when you have marketing staff, PR, Promotion who wouldn’t know how to promote a garden fate
Are you saying that their PR Company are incompetent? I think that this smacks at LIBEL, I hope that Paul Muckle and his employers don’t read this post or you could be in serious trouble..
If they had, then that list of companies that were so desperate to sponsor the Vulcan
The list of companies that have & do, support her stands at around 250….. OEMs or had you forgotten them??
I notice you didn’t comment on the main thrust of my post as follows…
2] In so doing the project has the distinction of being one of the 1 in 4 HLF projects EVER completed and brought in on budget, in other words as far as the HLF is concerned this project is an outstanding success.
3] The return to Flight part is a problem for TVOC not the HLF.
I wonder why?.. because you can’t refute what I say can you??
😉
Are you serious?… I REFUTED the one comment that you said I didn’t!!!
It’s not completed. Therefor “In so doing the project has the distinction of being one of the 1 in 4 HLF projects EVER completed and brought in on budget, in other words as far as the HLF is concerned this project is an outstanding success” is a false statement IMHO.
Please… you say that she wasn’t in full working order when she arrived because there were systems on her that didn’t work… There were systems on her when she arrived that aren’t even fitted any more… Which is why she’s got god knows how many lbs of lead stuck in her nose. 11 flying hours is 11 flying hours… That, my dear chap means she was working. Now if she had 0 hours, then your bucket would hold some water, but unless you’re telling me that the RAF (and a very dear friend of mine) flew 558 into Bruntingthorpe when she wasn’t fit to do so then I think you’ll find she was working…
With regards to companies that have supported her… You know what I mean. I really don’t think you have read through this thread very well because I have given credit to other companies involved. But TVOC have always told us that after the first flight, a major sponsor would come forward (one that would help finance the future operation of the aircraft, not the restoration of the aircraft)… And it hasn’t happened… now we’re being told that it will happen once she’s get her permit.
As for Paul Muckle reading this… I hope he is. I’d love nothing more than for him to come on here and tell us what they are doing to help secure the future of the aircraft. My father flew vulcans back in the 70’s, and I would love nothing more than to see one grace our skies once again. I’m not singling out anyone by name… But as many of the other people o this forum (and indeed this thread) have said, there have been serious short comings. As for saying there are incompetent… No, i didn’t say that… That was YOUR word.
VTTSCM, you obviously have strong opinions on the project. Given your name on here, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were in some way involved with the project (though I don’t actually know that)… But let me ask you, do you think they (and by “they” I mean the whole package) have done a good job? The aircraft has flown for 20 mins and hasn’t left the ground again since. Now, yet again, we’re being told that the money had ran out, the sponsors aren’t coming forward (this time because of the change in the word economy) and even the Vulcan to the Sky trust are saying that if they have lost confidence “The Trustees have decided, with the deepest regret, that unless such confidence is gained by the end of March, further activity by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust will for the time being be suspended.” Do you think the project has been well managed?
As for rubbish like interim compass swings… It doesn’t even warrant comment!
VX927Well said. I don’t know why everyone’s making such a fuss over a few broken chimneys and one injured teenager.
Thats easy for you to say… But as someone with 3 vintage aircraft less than 10 miles from the epicenter of the quake, I can tell you that I was nervous about them this morning.
VX927Eric,
What is the aircraft that you are sat in on the front page?… Is it a Paris?
I would like to say nice site, but sadly I don’t understand French 🙁
Regards 927
VX927This is not quite a true statement. the HLF gave the trust £2.73million to return the airframe to Quote
” FULL WORKING ORDER” not flight as this contravenes their charter/rules. therefore:1] A state of affairs exists that proves that TVOC has succeeded in doing what was required by the HLF, she is in Full Working Order ergo ’cause she flies.
2] In so doing the project has the distinction of being one of the 1 in 4 HLF projects EVER completed and brought in on budget, in other words as far as the HLF is concerned this project is an outstanding success.
3] The return to Flight part is a problem for TVOC not the HLF.
4] the C**P spouted here and elsewhere about salary costs is ridiculous because they had to employ fully qualified aircraft engineers, you know what they cost, and one of the CAA requirements was NO VOLUNTEERS allowed on the airframe what so ever.
I could go on but I can’t be bothered except to say I hope she flies again soon so I can see a return on my investment.
PS a little birdy has just told me she had a fault free full engine run this morning, sorry yesterday morning.
😀 😀
VTTSCM. Congratulations… When was the compass swing done? Ah… So it’s not finished… And it’s therefore… It’s not in “Full working order” I know it’s an insignificant point that I’ve raised, but it just frustrates me that you can come on here and defend it they way you have. The reality of what you are saying is that the lottery gave £2.7million to put the Vulcan back to the state it was before TVOC, VTTS, Walton, the Brunty Boys, (call it what you like) pulled her apart in the first place. After all… She was in “Full working order” when she arrived at Bruntingthorpe. The point is you’re splitting hairs. It might say “to full working order”, but to me and the average man of the street, that mans flying… At least to the point where she has a permit.
If you go back and read through the thread properly, I don’t think you’ll find anyone objecting to the cost of qualified engineers… Engineers cost what they cost. nothing you can do about that. But when you have marketing staff, PR, Promotion who wouldn’t know how to promote a garden fate, let alone the Vulcan, then you have to wonder what is going on. And PLEASE don’t tell me that they’re promoted her well… If they had, then that list of companies that were so desperate to sponsor the Vulcan (after the fist flight), would have come running forward by now with oodles of cash for TVOC! 😮 It’s all very quiet on the sponsorship front!:confused:
VX927Vulture,
I’ve sent you a PM.
VX927Went to collect her last november.
As long as i can get planing permision to build a shed large enough to house her ,she will be under cover as soon as possible.
Shed = temporary building… do you need planning permission?
Anyway, can i just say, you have a wonderful project there… I’m very envious of you. I’ve taken a real shine towards the Firefly!
VX927I quite like him… (*Ducks and runs for cover*)
I’m with you on this one… I quit like him too!!!!
VX927Is there any chance that we will ever see a Firefly grace the UK skies again? I only really took an interest in the Firefly after I saw a fantastic photo of one on the net… When the RNHF aircraft was flying here in the UK, I was more interested in fast pointy things!!!:(
Is there an chance that the RNHF aircraft will be restored, or was it completely destroyed when it crashed?
VX927There seems to be some confusion here…………
Both G-APWX and G-APXW were EP9s……..C/n 41 & 43 respectively.
G-APWX was sold in the USA in Nov 68 as N8395. Still extant according to a list of Percival survivors. Seem to remember it was at Oshkosh about five years back.
The EP9 in the Museum of Army flying is marked XM 419 which would make it G-ARTV.
Does anyone know more ????
Planemike
maybe you’re right/… I’ve no idea really. I just did a good search and found this
VX927What ever happened to the EP-9 G-APXW (?) sold in America some years ago does it still fly or even exist?
Be lucky
David
Quick search on Google, and it looks like G-APXW is now in the Museum of Army Flying at Middle Wallop
VX927whilst i understand all of what you have said, i still cant understand why the HLF is thinking about a formal investigation :confused: when they looked at the project to donate money to her, surely they must have seen the considerable risk involved?
Ben
No Nashio… I don’t think you’re right there. TVOC will have gone to GREAT measures to convince the lottery that their investment is safe. And at the moment, it looking like they couldn’t be further from the truth.
VX927Has anyone actually calculated the true cost of the project so far? I know that we all talk about this £6million, but the reality is that a lot of companies have VERY generously written off the debt owed to them by TVOC. I think Marshals have written off £1.5million alone… I dare to wonder what the real cost has been.
But still, like I keep saying. I don’t care what it costs… I’m more annoyed at the way it has been handled that the actual cost.
And still nothing changes……….. Todays breaking headline of the TVOC site… “Full access to the forums for our supporters”…. Whippy bl@@dy dooo… Who cares?!!!!! Lets have some news please!
VX927To me it looks like that runway ‘extension’ is simply where the farmer has grassed around the runway lights, rather plant a crop… You’ll see the same if you look at the other end of the airfield.
As for the 3 aircraft… They’re Tornado’s… Look in Wrecks and Relics and you’ll see a photo of them!
VX927I have been to visit TVOC today, and all I am going to add to the mix is that they are all VERY busy there. The engineers, storemen, and the rest of the ground trades work hard on the shop floor. Rusty and the ladies upstairs were constantly on the phones talking to media and sponsors, and finally, TVOC are helping several Vulcan owners dispite the fact that they would help their own cause more by flogging parts on e-bay.
I believe Dr Bob works for free… something I’ve heard somewhere, and he is constantly on the road promoting the Vulcan – doing talks, guest appearences, etc. Andrew Edmondson does the same.
There is light at the end of this very long tunnel for the successful return to the airshow scene, and although my contribution has been modest, I wholeheartedly support this project.
As has been said, if you support the project then your donations are warmly recieved and we will have a Vulcan at the shows this year. If you whine about the ‘deplorable sate of the management’, then ignore the whole thing. The negative publicity does not help and you are personally making matters worse.
Keep the faith.
Lindy,
I’m sorry to say, but no one is more negative than TVOC themselves… Just look at their web site. Front page… Negative, second item down “Under their Companies Act obligations, the Board of Trustees must have sufficient confidence that the levels of funding required will be forthcoming at the right time. The Trustees have decided, with the deepest regret, that unless such confidence is gained by the end of March, further activity by the Vulcan to the Sky Trust will for the time being be suspended.” NOTHING AT ALL on the work that has been done, or is being done.
And all I can say is that if they are working so hard, and it’s still in this state, then there really is very little hope.
Did they give any indication to you as to when flight tests might resume?
Is it really as black as the picture they paint?
VX927The two projects are in no way comparable.
Steve
You’re absolutely right… Thy are in now way comparable. But neither are assets… One is a business and should NEVER have been given public money… The other is a liability that we just cant say no to because of our love for aviation.
Do TVOC read these forums?… Dr Pleming, please please take note of what people are telling you.
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