Peter,

Was this also the one that rolled down a hill because of the supporting struts being to narrow. If I remember correctly the canopy was destroyed.

Cees

Lancaster DV286 of 300 Sqn

Your wish is my command:

Well, you asked for it

After the war various areas of the IJsselmeer were turned into land. When the waterlevel dropped the remains of some aircraft were found many of which were from WWII. For fear of explosives these wrecks were recovered, but even more wrecks turned up. The AF was called in to remove these wrecks and this is when their fame (deservedly I hasten to add) started. Over the following decades many wrecks were found including some bicycle wheel (they thought) and some wood. It was thought to be a large bicycle but when parts dated 1916 were found it turned out to be a Gotha bomber (details escape me at the moment, but I have a book with more info on that as well as a pic of the remains). During 1975 an almost complete B-24 was found, but during the recovery (five crewmembers were laid to rest), most of it was destroyed and only some parts remain in a museum). Every now and then reports appeared in the national press about wrecks being trawled up but nothing substantial.

The last decade

During 1993 the wreck of an aircraft was found by a boat deepening the shipping lane in the north of the IJsselmeer. It was established to be the wreck of a P-47D Thunderbolt which went missing together with its pilot Frank Gallion during WWII.

In 1995 the wreck was recovered complete (apart from breaking in two just barely out of the water) and put on outside diplay for about a year during an exhitbition covering aircraft crashes in the IJsselmeer.

During 1998 we hooked up with some fishermen who had located an aircraft wreck and wanted to know more about it. That’s the start of a very enjoyable partnership where they will find the wrecks and we will do the investigation, and if missing crewmembers are involved making sure the authorities are contacted and persuade them to effect a recovery.

The wreck indicated was a 83 squadron Lancaster missing since June 12/13th 1943. The complete wing is still there and an engine was recovered which has been restored and put on display. The preservation is excellent. A few years ago the control column was recovered. No missing persons in this one (we make sure everything is done by the book, before you ask)

Another wreck turned out te be another Lanc, this time being from 300 sqn with an all Polish crew. Five of these had still been missing. To make a long story short, last year during november 25th, all five were finally laid to rest with the only survivor (the bombaimer) being present. This was the cumulation of five years of work. But it was worth it.

Now we are working on a Heinkel (no missing crew) but as soon as the investigation is finished I will provide all details to FlyPast if they want to (including photo’s). One engine and some wingstructure has already been recovered.

Conditions are terrible for divers (visibility is ducksoup, a blessing in this case as it avoids looting) depth about four to seven metres and half the bottom is mud, and the other half consits of sand. Water is mostly fresh (not salt, although near the sluices to the norths there is a mix of fresh/salt understandably).

HTH

Cheers

Cees

Cover My Eyes by Marillion (UK’s finest)
.. she’s like the girl in the movie when the Spitfire falls…………

Having been to a Marillion concert last evening must have influenced me 🙂

My favourite band (after Ultravox split up, remember Reap The Wild Wind, but in that song, no aircraft types were mentioned).

Cheers

Cees

Don’t forget Joe Smith, he developed the Spitfire into the fighter we all know.

Cheers

Cees

Rob,

I wholehartedly agree with everyone who responded to your open letter.

I am pleasantly surprised and amazed by the contents of it. It takes a lot of courage to express yourself that way. I have the hightest of respect for that.

Things have got a bit out of hand but I just want to make clear that it hasn’t been my intention to insult you, Scott, the USA or anyone else on this forum. The WIX is and has been a very good source of pleasure and information in the past and still is.

I just wanted to let you know that I believe passionately in what I do regarding warbirds etc. Sometimes it goes just too deep and it can get a bit sensitive, but I have never made personal attacks before. Neither do I get out of the way of discussion for that matter.

I apologize that I got tempted to wander off topic and I assure it will never happen again. I have said earlier during the heated debate that I don’t have anything against Rob and I respect his actions about the Navy,
his personal achievements in the warbird community as a whole and I for one would like to get copies of his books as they seem to offer a great deal of interesting information. If I ever may have the chance to meet Rob in person, drinks are on me.

If there are differences of opinion regarding the way how to do it, that’s just a matter of life, but may not be an issue.

I hope to have cleared up things.

From the heart (as always).

Cheers

Cees

The problem with preserving and restoring vintage aircraft is that it takes so long to restore every one of them. It costs a lot of hard earned cash (speaking for private individuals) and parts are difficult to source or very expensive. Apart from that a lot of interesting developments have taken place the past decade, especially since the iron curtain was lifted and the number of restorable Hurricanes and 109’s exploded as well as scratching some aircraft types from the extinct list. Who knows what may yet to be discovered in that vast country and a lot of those aircraft were also British.

Of course we can all critisise the National Museums in the UK for concentrating more on the US types but a lot of those were used by the RAF as well. The preservation and restoration of types is an ongoing process and I’m sure the Shack and Victor will get their much earned treatment. Give these people or organisations a break and just look back and then again forward and see what happened in the meantime and the picture is getting more and more rosier. A decade ago the IWM didn’t have a complete Lanc, Hurricane, Heinkel III (albeit a Spanish version) and name some more but they are now restored or under restoration and this process will improve.

Restoring and flying warbirds is big business and only people with a lot of money can afford to do so, but others with a less healthy bank account have also proved that there are ways to make some very important contribution to the warbird community (looking at the projects to reconstruct a Whitley, Stirling, Hampden, etc). The fact that some UK types went abroad was because there was a lack of takers who would be willing to spend a lot of money on them. The Sunderland left because nobody wanted it, well so be it as long as the aircraft itself is taken care of it doesn’t matter where she resides.

Thanks Philip for starting this great topic and it’s great to read so many and varied opinions and that’s what this forum is all about.

The only thing that makes my hairs stand up in my neck is the replies by CrazyMainer who in general replies in the same fashion Mr Bush does in Global Politics (you are wrong….. we know what to do best….. and if you are not for us you are against…..). 😡

That’s what made me shy away from WIX unfortunately. Please Rob keep it civil. 😎

Personally I am amazed at the developments in the international warbirds scene and long may this continue.

Just my two eurocents of course

Cheers

Cees (ducking to avoid American ammo)