How do you seal something with an electrical charge (do you realise what an electrical charge is)? Even so, unlike the current F-35 prototypes (but similar to the X-35) the T-50 is at the moment not wearing any stealth coatings at all. So, at the risk of repeating myself, comparing F-35s with production representative surface treatments to the T-50 which is wearing nothing but a standard coat of paint is an apples to oranges comparison.
Also, I’m not sure what you mean by saying the F-35 does not have saw-tooth panel edges, because going by the photos we have posted here it clearly does have them. In that respect, there doesn’t seem to be a major difference to the approach used on the Raptor.
I for one have never claimed it will be ready so soon, the T-50 is closer to an operational aircraft than the X-35 (it does have weapons bays and better panel alignment) but is probably still a long way from being production ready. Personally, I think the current PAK-FA prototype is to the future series production version approximately what the YF-22 was to the F-22A, rather than what F-35 AA-1 is to the F-35A. Bearing this in mind, it would clearly take a major investment of money and resources to accelerate the test effort so much that the T-50 could make a 2015 in-service date and I don’t really see that happening.
Which, more likely than not, will be gone by the time the aircraft enters production (unless the definitive engine fails to materialise on schedule).
1.How do you seal something with an electrical charge (do you realise what an electrical charge is)? Even so, unlike the current F-35 prototypes (but similar to the X-35) the T-50 is at the moment not wearing any stealth coatings at all. So, at the risk of repeating myself, comparing F-35s with production representative surface treatments to the T-50 which is wearing nothing but a standard coat of paint is an apples to oranges comparison.
The link said there is a current running through the door edges. I didn’t make it up. The current is supposed to break up Rf signals.
2. I’m not trying to rain on you guys parade im just trying to add a little reality to the situation. IF the vents are attached to the current engine then when NEW engines is fitted there will need to be a change. Will the new engine use the same vents? will the nacelles need changing? If you redesign an entire engine nacelle then don’t you have to retest it?
3. So then how will the early production aircraft be superior when it has:
a. a legacy engine which needs legacy external vents that compromise RCS?
Does the Su series super cruise with a full combat load?
b. has a legacy engine that compromises rear RCS? Look at the rear nozzle again on the F-35 pics. Dont you see saw toothed edges? don’t you see saw toothed tail feathers? The t-50 engine is legacy.
c. legacy canopy and canopy treatment.
1 day the T-50 will be dangerous but if the early front line models don’t have a new engine with redesigned nacelles, and LO canopy treatments it will be more than a generation behind the F-22 and F-35 In the area of stealth.
Even the F-117 dealt with vents canopy treatment and made sure that the rear aspect was stealthy.
Please if we are to discuss this be civil and use a counter point.
You’re right Msphere. It seems a certain recent picture has confirmed the engine alignment (as per LP turbine cone/nozzle), evidence which hasn’t gone down well with a certain sector.
Jessmo, that “electric charge seal” thing is called electron beam welding, it’s used on the Eurocanards, Su-34/35, possibly MiG-29K etc.
Oh, kapedani I retract my apology to you, Savvy? :diablo:
? every time the doors close they are welded? I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing.
Much has been improved between the design of the F-22 and the F-35. The F-35 doors for landing gear and equipment, as well as control surface, all have straight lines. The F-35 does not require “saw tooth” openings to divert RF energy. One reason the openings on the F-35 are straight lines is reported to be embedded electrical wires near the edges which interfere with RF signals. The F-35 RAM is thicker, more durable, less expensive and, being manufactured to tighter tolerances compared to that of the F-22. The tighter tolerances means less radar signal can penetrate openings and reflect back to its source
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-35-design.htm
Although not every production F-35 will possess this system, every F-35 will feature this shape for aerodynamic consistency. This consistency reduces costs associated with flight testing the aerodynamic effects of aircraft not equipped with the system.
Notice this? will some versions not have this?
This is from a old code 1 article the original has been moved and may not be on the net any more but Id hate for a nice article like this to go away.
It is one thing to see a fifth-generation fighter from afar. It is quite another to see one close up. Lockheed Martin corporate photographer Eric Schulzinger spent some time with the first F-35 just before its inauguration ceremony in July. His results highlight some unique aspects of the F-35 Lightning II. The intricate curves indicate a balance between high performance and stealth. The panel seams highlight the incredibly tight manufacturing tolerances. These detail images blur the boundaries between technology and art.
Nose On
The first F-35 carries no radar. Space in the nose of the aircraft normally allocated to the radar contains flight test instrumentation. The seam around the front circumference of the nose, unique to the first aircraft, allows easy access to this equipment and easy installation of an air data instrumentation boom. The hexagonal panel on the left is a closeout panel for the upper forward antenna for a datalink. The hexagonal panel on the right is the upper forward window for the distributed aperture system, an array of infrared sensors that work with the helmet-mounted display to provide the pilot with a 360-degree field of view around and through the aircraft.
Main Gear And Tires
The F-35 landing gear varies in capability from variant to variant. The carrier and short takeoff/vertical landing versions have beefier gear and structure to handle higher sink rates and harder landings. Goodrich Corporation manufactures the main landing gear as well as the associated downlock and retract actuators and the wiring harnesses. The tires are manufactured by Goodyear, which is supplying prototype intelligent tires with sensors and transponders embedded in the rubber. These tires sense and transmit tire inflation pressure and temperature. The information is associated with a unique serial number that assists maintenance personnel to monitor tire life from cradle to grave. This monitoring ability supports the F-35 autonomic logistics system that uses advanced technology to prescribe maintenance actions.
Front Landing Gear Bay And Electro-Optical Targeting System
The single door on the front landing gear bay is unique to the first F-35. Subsequent versions of the aircraft will feature split doors to reduce weight and increase control during landings in crosswinds, as a single large door requires larger tail surfaces to control the aircraft in crosswinds. The faceted object just below the nose represents the window for the electro-optical targeting system. Although not every production F-35 will possess this system, every F-35 will feature this shape for aerodynamic consistency. This consistency reduces costs associated with flight testing the aerodynamic effects of aircraft not equipped with the system.
Diverterless Intake
The unassuming bump at the opening of the F-35 inlet works with the forward-swept inlet cowl to redirect unwanted boundary layer airflow away from the inlet. The diverterless inlet, as it is called, is a technology advancement introduced on the JSF. It meets aerodynamic and observables requirements in a less complex manner than previous designs. The geometry of the cowl itself changed from X-35 to F-35. The new geometry provides better airflow into the engine at higher angles of attack. The inlet itself was moved back several inches to reduce weight and cost. White paint on the internal surfaces is unique to the first aircraft. Internal surfaces of subsequent inlets will be painted gray.
Panel Seams And Air Data Probe
New seam technology used on the F-35 makes the aircraft easier to maintain. The technology allows removable panels to meet low-observable requirements. Unlike larger panels of the past, the seams of these smaller panels do not themselves require maintenance. Also unlike the larger panels, these smaller panels require less time to remove and reinstall. Smaller panels can now be associated with specific pieces of equipment. The mechanical air data probe, made by Avionics Specialties, Inc., swivels and is unique to the first F-35. Subsequent aircraft will have fixed probes, made by Goodrich Corporation, similar to those on the F-22.
Engine Nozzle
The F-35 is powered by a single Pratt & Whitney F135 engine that produces approximately 40,000 pounds of thrust in afterburner. The thrust makes the Lightning II the most powerful single-engine fighter ever built. To reduce cost, the nozzles of engines flown on the first aircraft do not have the low-observable characteristics that will be found on engines for subsequent aircraft. The geometry of the swiveling nozzle associated with the short takeoff/vertical landing version requires slightly shortened tail feathers.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?101216-F-35-In-Detail
The F-35 will be stealthy from the rear.
Engine Nozzle
The F-35 is powered by a single Pratt & Whitney F135 engine that produces approximately 40,000 pounds of thrust in afterburner. The thrust makes the Lightning II the most powerful single-engine fighter ever built. To reduce cost, the nozzles of engines flown on the first aircraft do not have the low-observable characteristics that will be found on engines for subsequent aircraft. The geometry of the swiveling nozzle associated with the short takeoff/vertical landing version requires slightly shortened tail feathers.
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/404.html
crap code one moved it does anyone know where?
anyway Look at the picture above, you’ll see that the entire rear area encircling the exhaust has serrated edges. also there is some nifty shaping on the tail feathers.
If your problem with the rear is the engines, then that’s going to be fixed – and that’s confirmed – with a brand new nozzle design.
Like I mentioned above, if the vents are attached to the engines then you also need new nacelles and new flight testing
Auxiliary inlets for high thrust settings at low speed. As djcross has remarked, probably a concession to the interim engines and likely to disappear on the production model.
The F-35 has plenty of bumps and bulges on its bottom surface, the stepped fuselage flanks are anything but flat:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_F-35_Left_Wingover_Rear_View_lg.jpg
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/images/news/BF3_F10_09363PR_1269967624_4657.jpg
How is that cleaner than this:
http://paralay.com/pakfasu/658.jpg
:confused:
Not unlike the T-50 prototype, it also had RCS disasters like these:
http://data4.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle4/x-35c_300/images/x-35c_300_033_of_117.jpg
http://data4.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle4/x-35c_300/images/x-35c_300_101_of_117.jpg
If I’m Not mistaken the panels on the F-35 are sealed with electrical charges. ( or at least this is the rumor) You people cant have it both ways. either the plane is an early prototype or its far into testing. If your going to say its only a demonstrator then lets do away with this nonsense about the plane being fielded by 2015. If its far into testing and the 1st production plane will use these engines, then it still has RCS compromises. If the vents are there because of the engines, your looking at a total redesign of the nacelles when the new engine is fitted. either way in this arm chair aviotion enthusiasts opinion, it cant be stealthier than a F-35 or a F-22 from bottom aspect because of the vents. Notice how the F-35 auxillary power opening is saw toothed?
It looks much smoother from this angle even the bump behind the fuselage seems faceted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svAqqFNUBw0&feature=related
I’m curious to see How aircraft can be any more maneuverable than the SU-30 and the F-22 already are. Are they putting the air craft in reverse and parallel parking them? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QqXlOsYVsQ
I want to know How all these air show tricks will make a difference when both aircraft will likely have high off bore site missiles. Do you think the USAF Couldn’t get war time funding to get Aim9X on a raptor in a war time situation?
m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Gcl6oa-Cz98
“Amazing unique”? What’s it got that’s going to make a practical difference?
Better?

even the X-35 demonstrator had some decently clean lines. I just hope its cleaned up.
Im used to stealth aircraft having smooth surfaces and smooth bottoms.



What are the vents for below the engine nacelles?
This is one a few things that makes me question RCS claims.
Ty, using mobile phone
Fuel pump and door hinge issues cause grounding!
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awx/2010/10/01/awx_10_01_2010_p0-259020.xml&headline=F-35
Time to cancel this plane and use F-4 phantoms!
is this real? 