The Janes article for sure, as it says 7 CSGs in 5 theaters
7 CSGs in 5 theaters
So the China article is plain BS.
That is a german UH-1D, right ??
I can add an AN-124 Volga-Dneper RA-82042
I would say plasma stealth could work as a very modern form of ECM, that could make the aircraft stealthy for a very limited period to evade an incoming missile. More comparbale to a towed decoy, then stealth in the american sense.
This all sums it up..
USAF wins by quantity.. Of funds… This results in greater numers of aircraft and force multipliers..
BTW, I don’t really think that Raptor is so much better than any other aircraft. It is totally unproven, anyway
I hope you have no important rank in am air force that might once fight the USAF.
The only few tibits of information coming out of operational teting of the F-22 made some heads turn in other airforces.
On topic. The USAF is a mighty force, because of good to excellent hardware, realisitic training and a strong support structure. Few airoforces can match that set up.
On the other hand they have been beaten regularly during excersises, they have been even beaten more often by their own aggressor squadrons.
Given an airforce with better equipment, comparabale training and take away the support structure, then outcomes like those reported are likely.
Remember imagine a 2 pilots of different heritage, but with the same skill.
Given them the same plane and the same training and the results must be a 50:50.

Posting pics made by others is easy. Post your own ๐
Again seahawk let us compare the Su-30K radar to the F-15Cs, the IAF also flew under restrictions so I fail to see what clear advantage the IAF had here, conclusion, both sides learnt a lot from each other, we all know that the US has good pilots, this exercise simly proved that the IAF has some good ones as well.
rest of it, we are making too much out of this story.
It tells me that some air combat like flights were undertaken. It tells me neither side did really show what it could do.
It tells me the outcome reported is good for both sides. The IAF can show how good it is, the USAF has a reason for the F22.
So in fact it tells us nothing.
Thursday, 24 June , 2004, 08:13
Although the US fighters flew with certain restrictions that handicapped their effectiveness, the performance of the Indian fighters exceeded expectations.
Hornburg said the F-15Cs that took part in “Cope India” were not equipped with the latest US active electronically scanned array radar.
http://sify.com/news_info/fullstory.php?id=13505089
I think that almost summs it up.
Exactly, that is true.
And it is a phsycological think. Everyone wants to beat the mighty USAF in excersises. But would it be could for the US if they would win every single excersise ?
So great. Awesome !!
Seahawk
You must rememeber alot of exercises are designed to test new tactics or weapons. For example I went to Red Flag and every day we were shot out of the sky by the “red Force” (F-16) but we gained valuable insight into what we could do to avoid a real world shoot down. On the last day, the mission was to resupply some special ops troops, so we (C-141/C-130) became the priority and we had dedicated CAP (F-15’s) as well as escorts (A-10) we were sucessful in that mission. So at the end of the exercise we were shot down 6 out of 7 days, yet we learned alot, and we also found out when we became the priority, we could survive in a hostile environmnet.
Another example, the Red force guys in their F-16s always knew we were coming just by nature of the exercise…one day we had guest Red Air, F-18’s from a nearby Navy base..they were not told who was there and what to expect, we actually defeated an f-18 attack, and were sucessful airdropping our loads, because we were able to use new tactics as well as surprise.. Also the F-18’s were waiting for the fighters to pop up at any time, so they thought we were a trap!! the fog of war!!! So you see even though on paper we were shot down alot it was a great learning experience…..I’m sure the IAF learned alot going up against an F-15, and Vice-versa…its all great training, and good fun!!!!
TTP
That is more or less what Iยดm saying. Those public reports are worth nothing. I know how good the US guys are when playing for real at Red Flag. We looked a bit surprised – I guess. ๐
I only wanted to point out that public reports are to be taken with more then a grain of salt.
Well, most of the reports that become public (especially those that surface quickly after the exercise) are wrong. And furthermore most of the exercises are goodwill visists, often those are reported nevertheless.
Remember the DACM trainig the Luftwaffe MiG-29 did against the IDF/AF. It was said that the IDF/AF did totally defeat the opposition and scored something like XX:0 against the MiG-29.
On the other hand we have heard from many different sources (USAF, RNoAF,RNAF,BAF,FAF,USAF,USN,USMC) how good the german MiG-29s were. Even the USAF invited them to come to Red Flag again, before JG73 gave up their MiGs. JG73 has been called one of the worlds leading aggressor squadron more then once.
So somehow both reports simply disagree.
Nothing changed from the original shot.
What you must consider that russian deals often include some form of additional payment that is often not taken into the unit price. It often says XX Mil $ and for example XXXXXXXXX tons of palm oil. Then often we see only the first part quoted.