RE: Own Websites

http://www,seahawkgfx.de

RE: so funny…

Well, this crisis is a real chance for europe to free itself from the US domination after WW2.

Remember the old saying why NATO was formed :

1. to keep the russians out of west germany
2. to keep the germans down
3. to keep the french from surrendering

But honestly if for example germany does not want the US to be an ally any longer, then it is time to demand a troop withdrawl. The same goes with the UK troops left in germany.

On the other hand, if I would be the US I would close down my bases in germany asap. As bases you must fear, you wonßt be allowed to use in a conflict are senseless.

I´m already waiting for the peace activists marching in front of US bases, shouting GI go home and SA SA SA Saddam.

Well if the reports about long range missiles found in Iraq are true, it will become increasingly difficult to keep an anti war standpoint. Because if the inspectors state that Iraq has violated against the UN resolutions and had no accounted those missiles in his report, there seem to be few options left.

RE: GeForce

I can understand GeForce

RE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds

Who says Turkey will start a war with Iraq ??

The fact remains that they asked for defensive weapons to be prepared in case of a Iraqi attack. This is not likely to happen, but even in the case of an internal revolt against Saddam, it is possible that he or loyal commanders would try to attack countries allied to the US. This can be Israel (likely), Kuwait, Saudi Arabia , the other Gulf States or Turkey.
Even if the chances that the weapons will be needed are slim, Turkey derserves the help from the other NATO members.

If you want to show that you are against a war with Iraq, you could always say that you will remove the weapons if Turkey gets involved in a war against Iraq.

But I personally I believe Turkey is just a scapegoat, that is used by France, Belgium and Germany to show theri anit american position. If these governments would have balls, they would close their airspace for US military planes. That would leave the US without the main european logistic stations in europe. That would surely reduce the likely hood of a war. And if they would really dare to oppose the US, then they would ask that all US troops are removed form the countries asap.

These moves would be polizical suicide imo, but it would be better then using Turky as a scapegoat.

NATO should be disbandet. It has lost any sense in todays world. Some european countries seem to see the US as the worst enemy to world peace and freedom, so they should be in an alliance with the US.

RE: Project Mirage ????

>Project “mirage”?
>
>Sounds like an appropriate name for a French solution to a
>situation that might involve the military to me. 🙂
>
>Regards Sauron

I prefer Operation “Inspector Clouseau”.

This franco-german proposal is just stupid. If Iraq does not cooperate and hides the sensible parts from the inspectors you can have 2000 or 3000 of them and yet it will achieve nothing.
If Irak cooperates the current number can easily do the job. Remember that resolution 1441 demands that Iraq prooves that he has no WMDs – not the other way round. So it is up to Iraq to come up with conclusive evidence, that the disarment has been made.
The inspectors only job is to proove this.

When you turn it around and say the inspectors have to proove that Iraq had WMDs, then you are back to the early inspections and Iraq can continue to play games as long as their leadership wishes.

And on with Turkey , they did not rquest the weapons directly, they requested to start the planning for a situation in which Turkey needs help. And even this was refused by the “peace powers”.
At least Turkey now knows who is a ally and a friend and who is not.

I´m against a war in Iraq, but only Iraq can influence if there is a war ot not. If the inspectors are 100% happy with the cooperation, then even the US can noit attack. If the inspectors are unhappy and feel like the Iraqis are not cooperating, then you come to a point where any diplomatic effort is senseless.

Instead of making Saddam Hussein feel save by refusing to attack in case he does not follow resolution 1441, all european countries that should be telling him what happens if he does not cooperate with the inspectors.

Only outside pressure will influence him in that direction.

RE: figaro

Well, what could they do instead.

A common european position was dead, the day Germany said that they are against the war – no matter what.

If you know that they want change their mind and you do not agree, there is no compromise.

So the german position started it imo.

RE: SCREW NATO — Old Europe responds

Sorry, GeForce but Turkey wants Patriots and AWACS. And given the high tension in the region ths is a reasonable request. Even if the current regime in Iraq topples from an internal coup, there is a risk that during such a revolt some desperate commanders could choose to attack the neighboring countries.
The IIPGW showed that. Israel was also not directly involved, yet it was attacked with SCUDs.
Furthermore Israel has been supplied with patriots from germany to defend against such an attack. So how could Turkey be denied the same help ??

Germany, France and Belgium are destroying NATO with that. The EU becomes laughable after the crisis. And a common european security policy will remain a dream.
The last is understandable, as ever european country, that has even a slight risk of becoming involved in an armed conflict,now knows that they can expect no help from their european “friends”.

They all will now know, that it is better to be on the side of te US, at least you can expect help from them, when you need it.

This decision, will even help the US in preparing the war against Iraq. Because know the Turkey government knows, that it can not bet on NATO or the EU in a time if crisis. The only ally they can count on is the US.
Now many more countries will be supporting the US. Cause everyone sees that europe is unreliable.

RE: figaro

Guys don´t you see that this is something completely different. That request does not mean that theforces asked for should fightagainst Irak. These forces should protect a NATO member from the possible effects of war on its border.

It is sad to see the France/Belgium and Germany are really using NATO to support their politcal gains. I´m really ashamed of the behavior by the german government.

NATO is dead now. The EU is equally dead. If I would be a country like Turkey, Poland or the other eastern european states, I would reconsider joining NATO or the EU, cause you can not expect any help from them in a crisis.

It seems to me that Germany, France and Belgium who are no far from any possible conflict, have forgotten that during the other NATO members where also protecting their safety during the time of the cold war.

And the new franco/german peace proposal is laughable. UN soldiers to porect the inspectors and help in the search for WMDs. Yeah sure we learnt in Bosnia how effective these soldiers are.
Furthermore resolution 1441 demands that Iraks prooves what it has done with the WMDs, and the Irak has to proove it no longer has any WMDs. So if the Iraki government fails to comply with the resolution it must face the consequences. The weapons inspection should continue the way they are done now. If the inspectors feel that Irak is not helping enough in the case, then Irak must face the consequences.

More inspectors do not help, if the Irakis are not willing to cooperate. So the question must be if they cooperate. That can only be answered by the inspectors already in Irak. If they feel they are cooperating, then no war. If they say Irak is misleading them and not cooperating, then war is inevitable.