Only difference Rafale was leading the pack, Typhoon needed the obsolete Tornado to be a little bit useful.
It is sad but so true, that the only advantage the Typhoon fans can claim for this aircraft, seems to be the integration of an US made and designed weapon.
It is a never ending story. Since the first prototypes flew, Rafale was always better, but Typhoon was always claimed to be better “in future”. This has not happened and will not happen. In fact in the future Rafale will be even more superior. Typhoon is a decent 4th generation fighter. Something like a European F-15C – just 3 decades late. It has its strengths, but it lacks multirole capability and the strength only come to play in very rare scenarios. It is a plane designed to fight advanced Flanker version with AIM120s. When will this happen? For most customers – NEVER.
So if you want to buy the plane which gives you omnirole power,you want the RAFALE. The best European fighter ever built.
Well even if you are lacking any basic sense of reality…I would remind that :
1) A&C state that they are far from beginner (re-read the report on previous page)
2) all pilots looks way too old to be rookies. I have the original picture no doubt possible.everything put together and there is not a single doubt remaining as far as pilot experience is concerned.
next answer for latter
Too bad you do not seem to read the magazine to which this forum belongs. Otherwise you would know about a pilot who earned the nickname SLAM – Struck Lybia after MQT. (MQT= Mission qualification training at the operational squadron – around 10 flights)
And in reality pilots have bombed a target a week after being posted to the operational squadron…
What is a rookie? I know a 35 year old pilot who is just learning to fly the EF. Pilots learning to handle a frontline fighter take different steps in learning to fly it. They start with basic flying, then BFM, basic air-to-ground and some countries even do advanced tactics in the OCU course.
I think you need to understand that Air Forces fly DACT for their pilots to learn and not for some fanboys to boast the superiority of the plane they are flying. It does not matter if they win, it matters that they understand why they lost. DACT is not a test for the pilot, it is an exercise to learn and improve their skills. DACT in which your pilots win every fight with ease are pointless.
perhaps I was not clear enough : I meant radar painting or radar contact.
Track-While-Scan before launch, at launch, after launch. While a Flanker would switch to CW ode before and after launch. So how does the Tiffie know the simulated AA-10C is on its way? And apart from the need to fly towards the enemy it differs very little from launching a MICA or AIM-120.
I don’t say otherwise but as you said yourself it is “basic” certainly not enough to be deployed in an international exercise against the rafale. That would be foolish, dangerous and a loss of time and money to train rookies. You would hardly mobilize foreign assets like the rafale with the typhoon just to train rookies.
When 2 training squadrons meet, why should they not bring their students? Operational flying is not something out of a top-gun movie.
Still rafales had to illuminate the target until impact which prevent from making a break to avoid an incoming missile. Moreover the 2 rafales could only fire one missile at a time (2 missiles in total) against 4 typhoons with their full multi-target capability. Normally a single Typhoon should have been well enough.
Rafale can not illuminate a target. Which makes the whole process “interesting”, as the RWR of the Tiffies would never notice that the illumination started (radar mode switch to illumination can not happen).
Get your facts right, the only limitation the French had was the simulation of AA-10C missiles, which is a quite long ranging one and which is difficult to simulate as the RBE2 lacks a CW illuminator. So the pilots were possibly not even aware of the simulated missile threats woth no illumination or actual missiles in the air.
That is the point. The French report told us nothing, never did never will. How was the lock-on simulated, how was the CW illumination simulated? It does not matter who flew the Tiffies.
I personally base my opinion on talks with EF pilots, who confess that currently the airframe is better, but the avionics are worse than on Rafale. That matches the IAF and Swiss reports imho. In theory that could chance (or should chance) but I have no faith in the Luftwaffe or the RAF being willing to spent enough money on the jet, to improve the avionics as quickly as needed – needed for future export competitions. If I consider the current training stage in the Luftwaffe, it is not the plane that is holding them back. It is the (old) service introduction plan, which does not reflect the current force structure.
There are pilots on the Typhoon force who have the backgrounds described, and lots of Jag and Harrier pilots who have never had an aircraft with a radar, but I have never heard that the ex-F3 Nav, nor the ex C-130 Loadie were involved in the Solenzara exercise.
Even if true, it paints a good picture of Typhoon capabilities. I mean the Rafales were simulating a third generation threat and owned the Typhoon at will. So we must conclude that Typhoon pilots need to absolute Top Guns to beat a 3rd generation enemy. I would buy that.
Exactly the oposite, read the reports.
The Swiss came to the conclusion that a Typhoon P1E could not close the capability gap to an upgraded AESA equiped Rafale…
The Typhoon P1E is very much today´s aircraft.
Or in other words, the latest production versions. In fact the AESA F3 Rafale was even more superior in comparison.
He left out bits like “it weren’t the only encounters between the two types at Aldhafra” or that “the RAF jocks were young sports still growing on the Typhoon”. These are important facts which put those claims in a different perspective. I don’t think that anyone with a sane mind considers the Rafale as a bad fighter or the Typhoon as unbeatable. The Swiss evaluation reflected the situation at that time, both aircraft moved on since. Typhoon’s capabilities in various fields have grown, be it sensor fusion, PIRATE capabilities, maturity of the helmet, capabilities of DASS and the related mission data for both DASS and Captor play a role as well. Considering claims of vast superiority wrt “superior MMI, ID capabilities or even SA” the evaluation put a damper at such claims put forward by many Rafale fans, many of those claims were and still are equally unsubstantiated as those you have criticized coming from the other side.
Still the Swiss came to the conclusion, that even an up-graded Typhoon could not close the capability gap to the Rafale. :dev2:
It is probably a good idea to train together. Kind of like F-22 and F-15 working together.
Brazil FX2: Rafale
Indian Helo: Ch-47
Indian Transport: C-295
Indian SARS: do not care
Malaysian MMRCA: Rafale
Swiss AF: Rafale
Korean FX: F-35
Absolutely, I think Rafale will win many deals now after its superiority has been confirmed by Switzerland and India.
Brazil, Malaysia, UAE are certain imho. Switzerland is not lost and I am sure there is more to come.