You’d be looking at a Gripen and a M2000.
Against the Gripen, the viper has to go to the vertical, and against the M2000, sustained turns.
Thanks Amiga, I sort of knew that but it helps me better place the info. Now if hobs missiles make sustained turn rates less important than itr we can see why an airforce with f-16s would worry about an airforce with. M2000s…
On a different topic, talking about relaxed stability and fbws, how did the su27 stack up regarding instability and its fcs?
Depends on what he is fighting. There are aircraft out there that have crushed many a Viper in the flats.
What aircraft would that be AoA, and can you please describe it a bit for us? Would really appreciate it.
Thaanks mkelly, an awesome post, trying to digest it all.
Everything seems to really be a tradeoff.
So even having an unstable design is a tradeoff…
Might have a few questions after I absorb it all… thanks again!
Before Rafale there was the TF-102A Delta Dagger trainer. I cannot help but to think it influenced the Rafale styling.
Seriously, these inflight photos of the TF-102A are rare commodity. I wish there were more with better quality.
What a beautiful plane!
Oh dear, there’s no need to bring the UK into this. 🙁
Hhahahaha joke of the day or shall we say century? 😀 😀 Thanks for that Rii.
Well, just to point out an obvious error – the F-16 and F-18 are not equal in sustained turn performance…
Made up stats by marketing? Nah… that’ll never catch on 😉
Amiga, I know you can really contribute to this thread… come on, feed us something.
The EE Lightning was controversial for a significant amount of reasons, I guess one can say both negative and positive. It was designed and developed during a time when it’s requirements were rather simple, take-off, intercept, shoot down, land, re-arm, re-fuel again and again at short notice and at short distances – range wasn’t a priority at that point and it was only meant to be in operational service for a short amount of time, certainly less than 10 years.
Given it came about at a time when Britain was at it’s peak of military and civil aviation it almost got the chop on several occasions more notably during the 1957 Defence White Paper, plus at a time when some bright spark thought it’d be a good idea to do away with manned aircraft and be replaced by defensive missiles in the RAF. Fortunately that never happened and the Lightning was saved, albeit it would seldom receive support from the government – British Politicians don’t like to be proved wrong and this aircraft was a thorn in their side for many years. On a positive side, the RAF managed to save the aircraft they love and keep it in service much longer than was previously planned, on a negative side it never received the support it deserved when it came to exports, upgrades and enhancements. Sure, it received ‘some’ “enhancements” but they were never significant or at best, minimum. During it’s early years it was considered to be by many the best interceptor in the sky. It’s I-band monopulse Ferranti AI23/23B/23C radar was simply brilliant, housed within a fixed intake known as the ‘Radar Bullet’ (which always kept the airflow into the engine subsonic, in affect the exact same concept as DSI some members boast about), it could, unlike contemporary conical-scan radars, angle track azimuth and elevation from a single pulse. It was a bit of a ‘pat your head and rub your tummy’ when it came to operating it, and the aircraft, but was much better than other radars fitted to other aircraft during that time.
Despite it’s short-comings and lack of support, it proved to be a very capable aircraft indeed.
EE Lightening, a single country plane, that had DSI (or something primitively similar) and yet no one’s frothing at the mouth because people brought it up.
On a side note, I did like the Lightening a lot, and used to read up all about it. Those where times when technology was changing rapidly so…
First off all, I am not Y20 bacon or whatever his name was…. I visited Tandil AB (home of the Grupo 6, Mirage) in December 2012, and talked a lot with crew and maintenance. They don’t want the Mirage F1….. and hell no…. sure not any aircraft from Russia and/or China! They prefer, right now, the latest Mirage 2000-5 or even Kfir models like those from Colombia. Remember, they look right now for a temporarely replacement….. The idea behind is to have a complete new aircraft that can replace both A-4AR and the next Mirage III replacement all together. No one there was thinking about any aircraft from China. That’s what the Government wants….. not the AF. So that’s why I think and belief no Chinese built fighter will end up in Argentina. But hey….. it’s you’re free choice what you think, so don’t tell me what I have to think and what to write down.
That’s a fair answer. Let’s see what happens.
First off all, I am not Y20 bacon or whatever his name was…. I visited Tandil AB (home of the Grupo 6, Mirage) in December 2012, and talked a lot with crew and maintenance. They don’t want the Mirage F1….. and hell no…. sure not any aircraft from Russia and/or China! They prefer, right now, the latest Mirage 2000-5 or even Kfir models like those from Colombia. Remember, they look right now for a temporarely replacement….. The idea behind is to have a complete new aircraft that can replace both A-4AR and the next Mirage III replacement all together. No one there was thinking about any aircraft from China. That’s what the Government wants….. not the AF. So that’s why I think and belief no Chinese built fighter will end up in Argentina. But hey….. it’s you’re free choice what you think, so don’t tell me what I have to think and what to write down.
That’s a fair answer. Let’s see what happens.
Thank you everyone, obligatory, EE, Bluewings. Your answers are appreciated.
Looking forward to some data… if anyone has any.
Just read the gripen link, boy was it long. Took me all day to finish.
Well, I am pretty sure that Argentina will not end up with Chinese crap…. sorry to say. The current Kirchner clan ( a true leftist @#$%) will make space in a few more years, and there will be no further interest in any Chinese material. Although the Mirage F.1M is outdated too….. it could be a good alterna
tive for the next five years to replace the old and tired Mirage III/Finger fleet. Sure the Argentines will managed to find another few extra Mirage F.1s and later replace them all together with a new aircraft (2020 – 2025 period).
Thankfully there are saner heads in argentina that realize buying an outdated plane known for its horrid maintenance record, a plane whose spare parts would be costly and hard to comeby, if far from a sane purchase for argentina.
Unless of course you are y20 Bacon, in which case you’d think it sane to purchasethe j20 instead.
Guys,
Back on topic please, let’s not make this another FC-1 thread.
Apologies but Argentina is reported by Janes and others as negotiating to buy the fc1. So I hope ypu won’t think we are off topic…

its only controversial because a certain member keeps pushing the jf-17 as the solution for every single air force in the world.
I never said any such thing. In fact I am on record saying the su35 would be better for argentina. Of course busget doesn’t allow that.
I’ve got some information floating about somewhere of the M2K and Typhoon, I’ll see if I can find it.
Will be waiting earnestly.
Bluewings do you have any data on the rafale or m2k itr / altitude / speed?