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PLA-MKII

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  • in reply to: What if JSF was split into two separate programmes? #2248759
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I think two programs would have been better, but hinsight is always 20/20. I agree that the VTOL version would have probably been cancelled, and rightly so too.

    It may in fact have been best to separate the USAF and Navy programs as well. The USAF needs something with a bit more fighter capability, as the F-22 doesn’t really have numbers, and it would be a stretch to imagine the JSF taking on the likes of J-20s and PAKFAs. In essence, the US is setting itself up for losing its air superiority edge.

    The USN is run by non-aviators and they couldn’t care less about air superiority. They need something like the F/A-18. Anything near a CSG would face massive EW/DEW/firepower from the USN ships as is, so the F/A-18s role in guarding the CSG is relatively easier.

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2248844
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    The jf17 was designed with multipe engine options in mind including the m88 which Pakistan is supposed to have even negotiated for. If u r considering 40 hrs per year the jf 17 would last 100 years of operation…

    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    While it is well known that plans last only as long as first contact with the enemy, planning for the future cannot remain still. You have to evolve your doctrine to account for the rapidly changing tech and threat perception.

    This is even more true given that today you can effectively simulate combat to a degree you could never do before.

    Many ppl do not know this but the PAF found the indian m2k more of a problem than the flankers to deal with. When u combine high ITRs with a HOBS missile, and with the kinetic performance od the mirage, it is a lethal weapon indeed. Yet on Boyd’s calculus, this would not be as readily apparent.

    Similarly, recent exercises showed the ef2000 and f22 could take poy shots from a distance as they could give their bvr a significant kinetic boost.

    Another example is of the SH Growler which can bring enemy electronics to a standstill.

    Yet another is EMP. I remember as far aeay as the late 90sand early 2000s, the PAF was testing an airburst EMP weapon.

    Laser and other DEWs, even powerful AESA radars can also play another paradigm shifting game.

    And then we come to UCAVs….

    Sometimes i think that maybe we need to think of airwar from a clean sheet of paper to get rid of the mental blocks from old set ways…

    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I think there are some things we can be sure about and some others less so. We cannot be sure hi-hi is the future for sure. But we can be pretty sure that ITR is becoming more important than STR.

    BIO will reply more comprehensively tomorrow when I am at a computer…

    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I was once invited to dinner by one of my professors when I was studying in the US. Her husband, seeing I am Muslim started interogating me. The conversation ended with him saying that they really just want to nuke the Muslim world and me pointing out that we could equally drive in a nuke through the mexican border. Incidentally he drove one of those vehicles that replaced the jeep…

    PS: oh yeah, Boyd…

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2249555
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    The planes’ cost isn’t the only factor here… Logistics chain, reliability, internal security, fuel economy, interoperability with other systems, …
    You’re not buying a $600 smartphone that’s made in china anyway here.
    Cheap Chinese MiG-21s are nice for places like Africa where they’ll be flown till they ether crash, or are due for overhaul and get grounded. Not for Europe where they’ll be flying for 40 or more years.

    The jf17 has been designed from the ground up for easy maintenance and low costs to operate. Pakistan would be a reliable supplier given french systems in operation there. You coild put in a m88 even as the airframe is designed with mutiple engine options in mind. Should easily last 30 years for france.

    The PAF was very impressed with the gripen and incorporated ease of maintenance and low costs of operations from the start. Seet info on this in various publications

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2249684
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Double post

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2249687
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I think they rather loose the arm and the leg than buy what basically are souped up MiG-21s… 😉

    Yeah but if only they can lower their pride, two seater jf17s could not only train their pilots but also provide an omnirole platform much cheaper than the rafale. They could then sell their rafale to india… no need for lengty production negotiations. I know this won’t happen but its the most financially sound solution. Jf17s could easily bomb rebels in Mali or place like that.

    An all twin seater fleet would mean no need for LIFT or inter
    mediate trainer. A simple cost effective solution that also helps france finance herself in these tough times. Just saying… also helps

    PS: anyone read the book Catch-22? Has some
    Pretty strange but financially sound deals in it. One that I recall, this chap told the germans when and where the next bombinb run would be for a large sum of money, then compensated the allies with brand new planes for them. Made a neat profit in between. As I see it, this way everyone wins – Pakistan, India and France all get something of what they want.

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2249863
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Forbidden 🙂

    Desperate times call for desperate measures, and there is a certain appeal for forbidden fruit.

    😀

    Would save an arm and a leg in costs…

    in reply to: what new air trainer should France get? #2249884
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Some other less likely but interesting options include:

    1. FT-7
    2. K-8
    3. JF-17B

    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    So what has changed since Boyd?

    1. Extreme agility and accuracy of missiles, making post merge dogfighting of little relevance.

    2. Greatly increased situational awareness from onboard and offboard sensors.

    3. Lower sfc and ability of fighters to endure longer hours in the air.

    4. Network centric warfare, that allows platforms to share, coordinate and fight together in increasingly large numbers.

    5. EW as an ever greater dark horse in the game

    6. BVR missiles and weapons allowing standoff combat at longer ranges. (disputed as to how long that range is)

    Some specific results of these changes:

    1. Greater importance of instantaneous turn rates over sustained turn rates

    2. Greater emphasis on standoff weapons delivery capabilities and network centricity

    3. Greater emphasis on kinematic performance from high altitude and at high speeds, which would allow the BVR combatant to outrange his opponent (i.e. F-22, PAKFA, J-20)

    (Point three is disputed by the F-35, which relies instead on better sensors and stealth at the expense of kinematics.)

    The JF-17 is another interesting plane in this regard, even though originally the PAF was looking to imitate the F-16, mid-way, they changed course realizing the evolving nature of air combat. Seeing the Indian FLANKER, they moved to give the JF-17 better instantaneous turn rates while compromising sustained turn rates by adding LERX. At the same time, they hoped to improve the kinematics by as low drag a design as possible and with DSI.

    These later design choices allowed the JF-17 to meet the F-16A in kinematic ACM performance even though it is based on a lower powered RD-93 engine. It is interesting to note that the biggest thrust of the program right now is to get a more powerful WS-13 engine.

    Meanwhile, seeing the evolution of the FLANKER, we see a number of interesting patterns in the PAKFA. It seems the Russians believe less on stealth and far more on kinematics. They also seem to still believe in post-merge high maneuverability as a requirement.

    Here are some possible thoughts why:

    1. DEW and EW, including lasers are evolving rapidly and may overwhelm the WVR missile paradigm and to some extent even the BVR paradigm.

    2. Platforms designed for 20-40 odd years need to be flexible enough to see the pendulum swing both in favor of missiles and when and if it swings the other way.
    So, the Boyd-Post-Boyd movement may not be a linear evolution but a cyclic pattern.

    3. When combined with DEW and EW, maneuverability may count even more because they are synergistic with such combat tactics. i.e. you may dazzle a heater long enough to maneuver out of its way.

    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    One of my posts:

    I think that the F-22 – FB-22 and the F-35 have tried to get the best of all worlds, but this may not be the best solution. It may be better to not trade off performance for stealth for a fighter, while it may be better to trade performance for stealth for a bomber. Trying to be a jack of all trades ends up going nowhere.

    Trying to eat the cake and have it too can be expensive and frustrating, as the F-35 shows. The future of aviation is perhaps to better understand the maturing technologies at hand, and to weigh them more appropriately than the heady days when stealth became the new fad. Here is where the PAKFA, J-20 and this new stealth striker / bomber fits in.

    The relative cost of an airframe R&D and manufacture, given CAD and modern production processes such as 3D printing is going down. The real costs are in systems development, and in maintaining those systems. This understanding is something of a paradigm shift, given that the flexibility was previously seen with the systems and not with the hard platform.

    The F/A-18 was one such example of the old paradigm. The new paradigm on the other is exemplified by this new striker / J-20 combination. Engines are the same. They may share a large number of sub-systems. But the structures are worlds apart. This is a very pragmatic and effective rethink, and a distinct Chinese way of war.

    in reply to: F-35 Debate thread (2) #2250542
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Thanks BIO, you’ve put it across as is just. I don’t think the other sides views are too far from that, only that they value kinematics more. And devalue the magic of the jsf a bit more too.

    in reply to: F-35 Debate thread (2) #2250564
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    But that is a different question, you’d essentially be moving the goal posts from the specific charge that was being discussed. The one so clearly illustrated in AW blog.

    Would you admit that given the numbers stated by lm and those given for the 16, LM’s claim is false?

    in reply to: F-35 Debate thread (2) #2250570
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I find it interesting that BIO has tacitly admitted that f-35 claims of outperforming the F16 or equaling it on all metrics is hogwash. The other die hards are still holding out though…

Viewing 15 posts - 376 through 390 (of 1,462 total)