February 22, 1978: Arson at the San Diego Aerospace Museum and the Internatinal Aerospace Hall of Fame, San Diego, California, USA. Loss of the building and entire collection, including 40 planes and library. Arsonists were two youths seen running away. Loss estimated at US$ 16 million. No detectors, no sprinklers. Not reopened to the public.
Theres over 80 fatal accidents and 125 fatalities for one manufacturer alone (North American).
I am not talking about accidents. I was reffering to ‘total losses’ where the aircraft is completely destroyed with nothing remaining to be re-built or repaired.
Mark V – If we look at the specifics of your timeline, there have been numerous numbers of warbirds lost in the last three or four decades. Certainly a number of air arms were still operating Mustangs and Harvards in the 1960’s and 70’s. The losses of these in accidents and combat far exceed the numbers lost in museum hangar fires.
Similarily examine the number of B-17’s lost fire fighting and they far exceed the number lost in museum fires. Adding to this the number of warbirds lost whilst air racing and there is no comparison to musueum losses.
Perhaps I need to more closely define my point: I am essentially talking about the modern ‘preservation era’ (say post 1968) ie: the 1970’s, 80’s and 90’s etc. I am talking about ‘preserved’ historic aircraft, not aircraft still employed by air arms and fire fighting companies. You will find with a little research on Google that the numbers of complete losses in museum fires far exceed the number of complete losses in flying accidents in that period.
Still, if they’re looked after in SAFE surroundings then they are still at less risk than in the air.
This is the point – there is no such place as a completely safe environment for historic aircraft, museums included. The technology of fire protection and detection is not yet advanced enough to 100% completely guard against a fire in a museum building.
The added factor is that museums often contain multiple historic airfames, increasing the loss compared with, say, an airport hangar fire that contained modern general aviation aircraft but included one or two warbirds.
Please leave the “irreplaceables” tucked up in a cosy museum for future generations to enjoy.
Skipper
Not necessarily, more historic aircraft have been destroyed by fire in museums than have been lost in flying accidents over the past three or four decades.
According to the BBMF website, there will be another of these displays today, anyone know what time it is planned for?
Spitfire ML730.
That would be MJ730.
EP120 spent the weekend in the T2.
KZ321 – have you ‘borrowed’ Stewart1a’s photo of KZ321 for your avatar, or are you in fact the same person?
Another meaningless and pointless thread, if you have so little to contribute….
What four naval museums? I can only think of two, the Fleet Air Arm Museum and HMS Belfast
Plus Royal Naval Museum & Royal Navy Submarine Museum
Pinch me somebody and tell me this isn’t TD248 in a new scheme and roaded in, the week before Leg-ends.Mark
TD248 was still at Duxford on Sunday 🙂
As this paperwork is currently up to date, wouldn’t it be worth Solent Sky continuing with maintaining that in their subsequent work, to allow the possibility of a future flying restoration when one of us wins the Lottery? Like someone else said, we should never say never when it comes to old aeroplanes!
GASML, unfortunately, outside of the control of an A8-20 organisation this is very unlikely I fear. Solent Sky now have to decide what to do with it, perhaps they will leave it as it is or maybe construct mock-up /replica wings and engine pod. It would be better not to ‘disturb’ the CAA authorised work already done if there is the remotest chance of a re-start some time in the future.
Then factor in the certification issues, particularly with a UK CAA Certificate or Permit and you’re looking at a small fortune in cash and a lot of persuasion required. Imagine the panic when the CAA ask for original drawings or stress calculations – and they will!
Copies of all the original drawings (hundreds of them) are with the project, what do you think we were working from? Stress calcs only need to be done when there is a change or modification from the original design. The aircraft is/was G registered, the CAA inspected the re-build many times, everything done was under the supervision of and was signed off by a licenced engineer. All new materials were from CAA approved sources and to original/equivelant specs etc etc.
There would not be any unsolvable problems in obtaining a Permit to Fly,
I congratulate Solent Sky for securing the airframe, they won the bidding on the day and have a fantastic aircraft to show on static. But all this talk about it now being “safe” makes it sound as if you Poms all thought it was in some great danger by going to New Zealand. I cannot see why. It’s in no more danger than any other warbird that flies anywhere in the world.
Dave – I worked in the restoration team for six years and I for one had no problem with it going to New Zealand. I am sorry it has not worked out that way.