(BTW: In the US, you can rebuild any aircraft that has been given a Type certificate (that started in 1927) and as long as you built (rebuild it to those standars, you’re clear to fly unter that certificate. If not, there is always the “experimental” label.)
This route allows you to register your warbird in the Limited catergory which imposes fewer limitations on operation of the type. For example you can fly IFR, at night etc (prohibited in the Experimental catergory). For an example the P-38 Lightning, P-51D and P-51C have all been through the certification process in the past, this gives rise to the curious situation of anyone with a P-51B registering their aircraft as a P-51C. I know they are the same aircraft, just built in different places, but it shows how onerous the route is without a previous certificate having been issued, its easier to just call it a C model!
But how could an original or rebuilt FW-190 (or Bf-109..or to stretch a point some of the MiGs that have appeared at airshows) fly in the UK?
Certainly its design/drawings was never “approved” by the CAA.
Such types could fly (and have flown) on a ‘Permit to Fly’, as I said in my earlier post, so long as they are they are ‘original’ re-built aircraft. The Permit system covers ex military aircraft and they do not have to have received a prior approval. Moreover this is why the permit system exists as such types as the Spitfire, Hurricane (and FW-190 for that matter) etc never had civil versions designed by the original manufacturer, so no existing civillian approval would be in place.
A new replica of any of these types would be much more difficult to get certification for as it is in effect a new type that has not seen military service and is not automatically eligable to apply for a PtF. This explains why most homebuilt type replica fighters are 70% or 80% the size of the original – this reduces the weight and brings them under the limit for PFA certification in the UK.
Because restorations are largely rebuilt to the drawings from which it originated. The Flug Werke aircraft have a number of deviations from the genuine article.
I would put a finer point on it than that – its simply that a ‘restoration’ is defined as work to an original aircraft (however scant the original remains may be), a new build is just that, a new aircraft. If it is not an original aircraft it cannot be certified with a Permit to Fly in the UK, regardless of how close it is to the design of the original.
Strange, i always thought plane was an an accepted abbreviation of Aeroplane….;)
In some places it might be but here its still very much a….
personally i’d like to see her painted in 19 squadron colours as the first spitfire delivered to an RAF fighter squadron- but, for some reason, nobody has asked for my opinion! 😀
Lots of ideas were discussed on a thread a couple of years ago but the final decision was only made recently – to portray her as she was when first arrived at 57 OTU. The early Spitfire scheme might not work on ‘213 as she was one of the last Mk 1’s to be built and physically somewhat different from the earlier ones in several ways, not least of which is the three blade prop (early aircraft had a fixed pitch two-blade wooden prop).
The La-9 is currently for sale with Courtesy Aircraft at $850,000.
Well there you are Don – three responses inside a minute!
Have I asked a silly question? Maybe not phrased it correctly?
Hello Don, I think the question may be a little confusing but I will try to answer it. As I understand it you need a font type for the aircraft code letter P on a Lancaster in conjunction with a squadron code also containing a P. There is no known photo of the aircraft but you have made a good start and used ‘standard’ decal letters in Red for the squadron code.
I would say that there was no fixed ‘font’ as such for these code letters, bomber, fighter or any other. Generally the height of letters and often the stroke width was defined but the actual style of letters was not rigidly defined and tended to vary from unit to unit. Early war fighters often show great variation in styles as orders changed rapidly re-defining heights of letters, later on things settled down a bit but there was still a considerable variation in the ‘squareness’ and overall proportions of letters. Unlike the Americans, the RAF tended to stick with radiused corners to letters rather than the chamfered corners often seen on US types and this is certainly one of the characteristics that is common to most examples.
Back to your model – I would suggest you simply mimic the P you already have in the squadron code and yes it would in almost 100% probability have been Red, same as the other letters. If you had a picture of the aircraft in question or one of the other aircraft on the squadron you would be able to make a better job of replicating any idiosyncrasies it might have had but in the absence of this I would say you will get a fair result on this basis.
Yes, thats the one- thanks for the Hardwick warbirds site link too, Yak-11 fan, not sure of the relevance,
Oxcart – the link is a ‘signature’ and appears under all Y11F’s posts 🙂
Here is a shot showing these parts in situ on a Hurricane under re-build.
Thats the way I read it too. I thought that plans were already underway to survey the UK’s seabed wrecks?
Yes – but it is with the aim of locating them.
Seems a bit odd to me to be spending a lot of money twice.
It would not be duplication – the Sunderland survey is to investigate the condition of this particular wreck with a view to recovering it. They already know where it is.
This is Spitfire GW668
Its JG668. They are off to a great start, now just the matter of raising the remaining £850,000 they will need to get her flying, over the next three years! Sincerely hope they can fund it.
In the meantime, what do others think ?
Its the site itself that can be given Ancient Monument status (Ancient monument protection is, as you say, like listed building status in many ways but is intended to protect things that are not obviously buildings such as Stone Henge, Hadrians wall, the Roman city walls around Winchester etc) – the details of the act you are quoting allows for the similar protection of ancilliary items that might be on the site (and that contribute to its status as an Ancient Monument – for example: SS Great Britain sitting in the dry dock in which she was originally built (correct me if I am wrong on that one though), both dock and vehicle/ship would be protected. Your case therfore would have to be that the museum site as a whole should become an Ancient Monument, incidentally protecting the aircraft artefacts on it. I very much doubt there is any mileage in that!
So will it take part in the 2008 season? I think Flying Legends would be the perfect setting for the affor mentioned 2 seat formation;)
You are discussing an aircraft that has not been flown in around fifteen years – my comments are based on this fact (rather than an specific knowledge of the aircraft) but I think its fair to speculate that there is likely to be a considerable amount of engineering work to do before it can fly again. The exact extent of the work will be determined by a detailed inspection but whatever the results I would not expect to see it fly in the next nine months (ie; 2008 season).
Compare this with a different Spitfire (BBMF’s MK365) on another thread, one that has been flying until a matter of weeks ago & that had substantial restoration work carried out in the 1990’s.
Finally – I think seeing a formation of 2-seat Spitfires at Flying Legends is about as likely as seeing a formation of 2-seat Hurricanes.
Pic 1: MV293 – Mk: F.R.XIV (but painted as MV268)
Pic 2: SM845 –Mk: F.R.XVIII
Pic 3: PS890 – Mk: P.R.19
Pic 4: BM597 – Mk: Vb (in foreground)
Pic 4: JG891 – Mk: Vc (in background)
Pic 4: EP120 – Mk: L.F.Vb (fin only visible)
What generally happened to a/c after they were SOC?
Scrapped Or Crushed!