mack8Obviously that individual is trolling the chinese themed topics with a specific sinophobe agenda in mind, no amount of proof and evidence to the contrary of whatever he is claiming is going to make any difference for him, waste of time (and hell i even replied to him couple of times- want my time back).
Anyway, me i’m eagerly waiting for the rumoured next two PLAN carriers (improved Liaoning design?) and the development of carrier aircraft and helos (J-15, perhaps J-31, twin-turboprop AEW, various helicopters etc.) it will be epic. (and foaming at certain mouths just as epic lol)
While i’m at it, if i may ask: what would be most likely the airgroup composition of Liaoning when fully operational (by type)? Thanks.
mack8Great pics, thanks Deino and Pinko! Looking forward to just as sharp pictures of Z-20, J-20 bort 2003, JH-7B and that rumoured J-10C (if indeed real)! Considering the artwork suggesting an F-16I-class aircraft (two-seat fighter-bomber with CFTs), would such an aircraft have a role in PLAAF? A more versatile platform to replace remaining Q-5s able to defend itself instead of the big and heavy JH-7?
By the way, i still think the bort “2004” on the J-20 is PS, why on earth would they change the bort ?! Won’t believe it until i see a clip of it.
Oh and regarding helos, the rumoured collaboration with Mil on a heavy Mi-26-class helo (33 ton by some sources), has it received a Z-xx designation yet? Any idea when first flight is planned?
What milestones for the chinese aerospace industry and PLAAF/PLANAF we should expect in 2014?
All the best in 2014 to everyone.:)
mack8The 4 Su-30M2 are definitely new-builts, part of the december 2012 contract for 16. As to the 2 Su-27SM3 mentioned, they are older series 36 airframes upgraded to SM3 standard (so perhaps they should be called Su-27SM4 or something?). Some insiders allege that a number of Su-27P from series 35-38 are to be upgraded to the SM3 standard, perhaps for the regiment in Belarus? No idea what’s exactly going on on this front, guess we have to wait& see.
Berkut, perhaps those 2 Yak-130 in new cammo (bort 65 and another one, either 64 or 66) are counted for this year, although i haven’t heard anything about them being ferried yet.
Regarding the helos, there are news that 9 Ka-226 were also due this year, but they are not in that list, any of them have been delivered yet?
mack8A great summary of what has been delivered so far, thanks Charly015 via Viktor @russiadefence. Initially the vehiculated numbers were 86 aircraft and 100 helos (not clear if only new aircraft or including upgrades), so far 76 new aircraft and 109 helos have been identified as delivered or handed over:
– 12 Su-35S
– 14 Su-34
– 14 Su-30SM
– 4 Su-30M2
– 2 MiG-29K
– 2 MiG-29KUB
– 20 Yak-130
– 3 An-140-100
– 1 An-148-100
– 3 L410UVP-E20
– 1 Tu-214ON
– 14 or 17 Ka-52
– 14 Mi-28
– 8 Mi-35
– 4 Mi-26
– 53 Mi-8AMTSh
– 10 Mi-8MTV-5
– 6 Ansat-U
In addition to the above list, planned upgrades due to be delivered this year (not sure how many delivered so far) that i can identify are:
-10 MiG-31BM
– 4 Su-33
– 2 Su-27SM3 (reportedly postponed to first part of 2014)
– 2 Tu-95MSM
– at least 1 Il-38N.
Like i said above, things are still not clear regarding Su-25SM (and potentially new built UBM), Su-24M-SVP24, maybe Tu-22M3M, A-50U AEW not to mention special aviation platforms (like Mi-8MTPR-1 and Il-20M/22M etc.), transports/tankers and navy helos/aircraft (Ka-27M? new Be-200?), there must be a sizable quantity of them too.
Corrections welcomed.
PS: Oh and thanks Berkut for explaining what is “pokazuha”.:)
mack8What is pokazuha if i may ask? Bad weather? Oh and of course would really look forward to a more comprehensive and accurate resume of what has been produced and delivered where this year.
mack8In a recent magazine, the number of Ka-52 and Mi-28 delivered by now was estimated at 60 and 75 respectively. Regarding the numbers of helos delivered this year, recent news suggest over 100 (think the plan for this year is 120, need to re-check) have been delivered, 53 of these being Mi-8AMTSh (and possibly other variants) made by Ulan-Ude which also exceeded it’s annual target. 40 more Mi-8AMTSh are planned to be delivered next year. As for the rest delivered this year, apart from the 14 Ka-52 the balance must be divided between Mi-28N (at least as many as Ka-52 imo), Mi-35M, Mi-8MTV-5, Mi-26, Ansat-U etc.
Regarding combat aircraft, 6 more Su-34 are due to Morozovsk shortly which will bring the total this year to 16, again exceeding plans (the last 2 are from the 2014 order and reportedly sport a different cammo, the blueish one but with white radome and dielectrics).
2 Su-30M2 are on the way to Krymsk (apparently- unless the insider mixed things up, i thought they will go in the Far East MD), 2 more will be delivered to their units in the near future. 12 Su-35S have been handed over and will also be ferried to their units in the near future (Dzemgi?).
IAPO has apparently delivered 14 Su-30SM this year according to plan, making now 10 at Domna (4 have been delivered a week ago). All 18 Yak-130s planned are delivered with 2 more due shortly, sporting new cammo as well.
RSK MiG has handed over 4 MiG-29K/KUB planned for this year and according to Berkut (welcome back btw!) they must be at Akhtubinsk now.
Things are way less clear in regards to upgrades, released figures planned for 2013 include 10 MiG-31BM, 2 Su-27SM3 (allegedly postponed for next year according to insiders) and 4 Su-33. It is not clear how many Su-25SM were planned this year (and neither the status of Su-25UBM), nor how many Su-24M-SVP24 although according to news the Shagol Su-24M unit had all it’s aircraft upgraded to the M-SVP24 standard (24?). Imo i would expect about a squadron worth of Su-24M and even more than that of Su-25SM to be upgraded yearly at ARZ units.
Unfortunately, i haven’t followed closely the status of transport aircraft deliveries/ upgrades, and bombers but either way, i think this is the year with the most deliveries of aircraft and helos to VVS since 1991!
mack8Lemme point something. The embryo of the current chinese aviation industry was created at least FIFTY years after the most capable out there (european, russian, US). The first jets they built were soviet licenced products, but the break-up with the USSR in 1961, and the badly misguided maoist policies set back chinese aviation and especially chinese indigenous projects another 15 years. In the late seventies they were still two generations behind everyone else, the best they had at the time were J-7, J-8 (not even in service yet), Q-5 and H-6. So the real boom of the aviation industry only started less than 40 years ago. From then on, through whatever means possible- buying, collaborating or plain “copying” when necessary -and enourmous work they went from strength to strength despite adversities and more recently (mainly US) imposed obstacles.
So from the still archaic and backward country, and a similar aviation industry level, of the mid/late seventies, they have evolved into THIS: world’s most successful communist country, world’s second economy, and an aviation industry matching that stature and growing every day. It’s products while in some respects still behind (to varying levels) other aviation industries, they are competitive, competent and can stand in the ring with almost any peers out there. Especially the new generation set to dominate this decade like J-10B, J-15 and J-16 (Sukhoi based), J-20 and J-31, H-6K, Z-10, Z-19 and now Z-20, the Y-20, upgrades to legacy platforms like JH-7, Z-8, Z-9, Y-8 and the continuing advance of chinese avionics, electronics and airborne weapons are further reducing the gap. Engine wise, it is almost certain that past 2020 China will be fully self-sufficient in this regard too (through the fully developed by then WS-10, WS-13, WS-15 and WS-18 and others smaller) and will not need imports anymore thus completing the circle so to say. Remember they would have reached this level, almost on par with the best, after their main competition had a FIFTY years head start! Don’t you think this is astonishing? And given this evolution, can you imagine where they will be in 2030?
Hope to live to see it, their 6 to 9 super-carrier fleet backed by a similarly imposing Navy, and a state of the art, stealth fighters, attackers and bombers cored, thousands strong Air Force, preferably conducting regular wide scale drills and deployments around Hawaii or in support of allies in northern Latin America or even Cuba. What goes around comes around, in full accordance with international laws of course. 😉
mack8Elsewhere the number of A/Bs (stored, & all potentially available) has been given at about 50, & 87 C/Ds in total, but most in use by the air force.
Thanks, Flightglobal seems to put the active C/D fleet at 80, if that figure is accurate then that leaves about 50 A/B and 7 C/D available for renting.
mack8On the topic of second hand Gripens, any Gripen gurus have some information as to how many A/B and C/D models are stored in Sweden and potentially available for renting ? Thanks.
mack8What’s up with all this Anti-Americanism?
Because they deserve it.
Like i said before, it’s clear as day that the Z-20 is not a copy of the S-70, the chinese reportedly liked the S-70 , of course the yanks didn’t wanted to sell it to them even if the chinese offered money for the licence, but they still did wanted a wide and short cabin helo (perhaps with airlift in mind?) for their needs hence the Z-20, though of course there are sufficient detail differences to make it a different helo entirely. I bet up close not one single rivet falls into the same place as on S-70. All this reminds me of something i heard about the iranians, apparently they made this helo very similar to a Bell-206, but NOT identical. Of course the yanks went nuts and they even sued them, yet imagine this, they lost, and in a US court!
This copycat thing the yanks keep throwing about is sinophobe propaganda and racism, nothing less. This is not something like Tu-4 (B-29), K-13 (AIM-9B) or even early J-7 (MiG-21F-13), those days are far back. J-31, Y-20, Z-20 etc. might have a similar configuration to their american counterparts mainly for expediency reasons, but they are NOT identical hence they are not copies, sorry. The only current chinese aircraft that are closer to the “copy” tag are the J-15 and J-16 although only superficially, as while outside they looks almost identical to the russian counterparts, inside, especially avionics are completely different, however don’t forget they got a LICENCE for the Su-27 way back, and i’m sure they and the russians stroke some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement in regards to the latest derivatives, otherwise the continuous cooperation between the two would have been surely stopped. And yes, you don’t hear the russian officials complaining, only certain “outlets” bring it up, and who knows who those outlets are really serving… stirring China and Russia, or at least their public, against each other is something the yanks would be desperate for.
So yeah, suck it up yanks!
mack8So perhaps we can add Z-20s first flight for this year’s milestones as well (providing someone is not fooling with PS here, still a possibility even if small). Hopefully we’ll have more pictures. And yeah, i’m sure the yanks will huff and puff and throw hystericals, just like they do every time China is unveiling another significant achievement, but who cares. Go China go!
mack8Just a word of praise for the Keypub folks, insightful articles by msrs. Mladenov, Butowski and B. Taghvaee (iranian Su-24’s) featured prominently in the latest CA, AI and AFM issues.:)
mack8I wonder if they will ever fit the EJ-230 or other EJ-200 uprated derivatives to the Gripen-NG. No need to worry about US restrictions and approvals then, european airframe, european radar, european missiles, european engine.
Anyway in recent news, it seems SAAB has received a contract from the swedish government to upgrade 60 Gripen-C into Gripen-NG. That presumably, would entitle considerable structural work given the NGs mid fuselage mods, but still cheaper than buying new NGs. No second hand Gripen-C market then.
Thanks to Tango III:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/150378/saab-wins-%242.5bn-swedish-order-for-gripen-e-production.html
mack8found this view in Forcesdz.com (*) where it is presented as being of the Mozambican Air Force !!
……………………………………………………………………………[ATTACH=CONFIG][/ATTACH]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>…………………………………………………………………………………… BUT … I don’t believe it …!. it’s surely a PS’roundel !!
(*) I don’t want to enter/connect in that site )
I’d like to know ….
friendly, Etienne
Well, yes it’s mozambican, it was overhauled at Aerostar together with some MiG-21s, in that picture the L-39 has a provisional romanian roundel. RoAF has looong stopped operating the L-39. Pictures (of this L-39 and MiG-21bis/UM) were taken at Aerostar btw.
mack8Oh for gods sake folks, haven’t we done this “Il-476 sucks” thing a million times already? There’s a topic here somewhere just for that, so please if you wanna restart that debate do it there. Thanks.
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