Can you post the file here by any chance Sens, the german forum requires login (and i forgot my details!). Thanks.

Turkish General Staff issued an announcement and added the radar track history regarding the incident:

1. The Syrian Mi-17 was first detected as possible intruder and immediately tracked by the Diyarbakir CAOC at 1341, while it was 26nm from the border.

2. CAOC repeatedly issued warnings to the helicopters until it was 5nm to the border.

3. The helicopter intruded Turkish airspace at 1425 near Guvecci Gendarmerie Post at Yayladag, Hatay province at 14,200ft and 2km depth.

4. Two F-16C’s that were on CAP nearby were diverted to intercept the helicopter.

5. The helicopter was shot at 1427 and crashed at 1km within the Syrian side of the border

http://www.tsk.tr/3_basin_yayin_faaliyetleri/3_1_basin_aciklamalari/2013/ba_17/1.jpg

How about that, after the last two years of conflict and tension in the area, and after the shoot down of the Phantom, despite the huge number of SyAF aircraft and helicopter sorties, no such incident happened in all that time, but here it is happening EXACTLY now, when there’s hope of an agreement to avoid a war against Syria. Can you smell it? I do. What the hell was the Mi-17 doing at 14,000ft anyway? And boy, that was quick reaction, entered turkish airspace (they say) at 14.25 and shot down at 14.27. Did those F-16 first intercepted the Mi-17 according to international standards, i.e. fly alongside it, identify themselves, order him to follow and wiggle their wings, then if not complying, fire warning shots, and THEN if the Mi-17 wasn’t complying, shoot it down? CAOC issue “radio warnings” huh? What make them think (if what they say is true) that Mi-17 didn’t had a defective radio f.e., or was on a different frequency, or a myriad of other reasons for which he might NOT have heard any warnings?

Again, i smell it from here. Mark my words, likely this story is a sham. Either the Mi-17 was shot down in syrian airspace, or if it really strayed 2 (two!) kilometers into turkish airspace, they quickly shot it down as a “lesson”, “revenge” for the Phantom, or other obscure reasons, you name it, ignoring any internationally recognized procedures in such cases.

Can anyone believe that syrian pilot (and his passengers- likely) in his Mi-17 bus sought himself so brave as to knowingly take on the turkish air defence and interceptor force, ignoring all the warnings, and just teasing the turks by flying into their airspace in his “invincible” crate? Really ?! Come on now for *** sakes.

Another TV report on the two Su-30SM delivered to VVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tURA5RwnYDk#t=79

RVV-BD ? That would be interesting. First flight for Super-30 still in 2014, or postponed?

My understanding is that only the F-16I can use AMRAAM, i don’t think the C/D can (they were not BVR capable when bought as it wasn’t planned for them to be so, afaik), although i suspect they could use Python-4/5. Any confirmation of that by any chance?

Regarding IAF F-15C/D, does anyone know if they are capable to fire AMRAAM like the F-15I, and any pics to show it?

Thanks.

Aren’t the F-16A/B (over 100 if i’m not mistaken) used in the OCU role?

As for the never ending discussion of “kills”, just bare in mind, like every other air war , the number they put forward are CLAIMS, and not the true and definitive figure of the losses they have inflicted. Every and any side tend to minimize their losses ( like passing them as SAM losses) and maximize those of the opponents, knowingly or not, no exception here. Probably the real “kill” figures are less than half or even one third of what they claim against the arab pilots (the opposite is also true, of course).

Buk is medium range SAM for the Army (also in the army are the S-300V, Tor, Strela-10 and Osa, these last two to be joined /replaced by Sosna, Tunguska then lowest missile tier MANPADS both man carried or on various platforms, and finally guns?.
Pantsir gun-missile system, so far in russian service is used in the PVO, to protect the S-400 from air and munition threats at close range. I just read news today that it will be soon induced in the Army (replace/ complement Tunguska, plus short range defence of long range SAMs?), the VDV ( likely a lighter system), and a naval system is in the works too.
Morfey is a very short reaction time, IIR, instantaneous 360 degrees coverage SAM, again to protect long range SAM systems and other objectives against air and munitions threats, especially saturation attacks.

The americans were probably taken aback by this proposal, i bet they were not expecting a positive answer. But soon they will fabricate another reason to attack Syria and continue their furious PR lies and deceits , even if the syrians will give away all their chemical stockpile*. Saddam did exactly what was he asked to do, and they still invaded Iraq.
And even if by some miracle they won’t attack Syria they will still continue to arm and send scores of jihadists and extremists to do the dirty work for them.

* how come the israelis are not given a week to put under international control THEIR chemical, biological and nuclear WMDs?