mack8Increasingly based on memory here, i THINK i’ve read somewhere else that Sayood survived after ejecting from his MiG-29, and it’s possible he might have been interviewed (briefly, remember most ex IrAF pilots are in hiding , and it’s very hard to get hold of them) but i might be wrong here.
Ahmad Sadik was a high ranking air force officer in the ex-IrAF (Brigadier-General), unfortunately, it appears he might have been detained in a ME prison some years ago…
Btw, apparently many of these claims come from meanwhile accessible (by very few persons who work in the aviation writing business) iraqi secret documents regarding the 1991 war in which they assert their own performance. Like i said, actually crediting some of their pilots with A-A kills was a long process, the F/A-18 wasn’t credited until 1993 or 1995 f.e.
mack8Slightly related, can i ask if anyone can point me to a list by type of the US helicopter losses during the 1991 war , combat and accident ( and if possible, combat damaged ones too) i know there were 5 lost in combat and 23 in accidents, and i have read the list in a magazine long long ago, but strangely, i can’t find anything on the net! Thank you.
mack8Unfortunately, i can’t read or understand russian beyond the very basic reading between lines to understand who or what was shot down etc. so i can’t translate that section of the article. But i think the gist is Sayood fired an R-60 (or more ?) without activating the radar (using the HMS?), then he was a shot down himself by Rodriguez and the other guy (it was only Sayood btw , not two iraqi MiG-29s there).
Anyway, if you understand russian better than i do, i will gladly send you the scans if you want me to.
mack8Interesting. Wasn’t there in some western journal an article called “Thanks , but no thanks” or something like that about them NOT buying more Sukhois? 🙂
Anyway, there is no better solution for their needs than Su-30, cheap enough but with huge legs, heavy load and competitive performance against any potential opponent.
mack8Only one was noted as being hit by an unknown missile – in any case it retured to base.
And that unknown missile was most likely an R-27R fired by an IrAF MiG-29. Btw , as far as i’m aware the HARM and “unknown missile” incident must refer to the same aircraft. The HARM version is what officially the americans maintain.
Speaking of HARM, i have a question to knowledgeable folks please. HOW does it explodes when it reaches it’s target? What triggers the explosion of the warhead? And are there any pictures of the damage received by that particular B-52? Thanks.
mack8The only other Iraqi claim I was aware of was that of a Tornado but it turned out that the particular airframe claimed by Iraq was shot down in a later attack.
I was feverishly looking for the initial source for that infamous (and derided in western sources) shoot down of Lennox/Weeks in ZA467 by a MiG-29 ( Sayood) said to happen on the 19th, while they crashed on the 21st apparently. This argument has been used as “proof” that the iraqis lied.
I found the article finally. Of course, indeed Lennox and Weeks were not shot down by a MiG-29 on the 19th. There is no mention of it whatsoever in the article from AiV 6/2005 by Ahmad Sadik and Diego Zampini.
Sadik and Zampini talk about Tornado GR1A ZA396/GE flown by Stewart /Waddington who were shot down by Sayood on Jan.19, near Tallil air base.:)
(which begs the question when did the Lennox/Weeks story started, and by who)
This smells of the same stuff that was infused in the supposed Serbian shoot downs – including a B-2 Spirit.
No it doesn’t my friend. In Tornado’s case they WERE shot down, the pilots WERE made POWs, the wreck IS/was spread on the ground over miles, the only “small” detail is WHAT shot down that Tornado.
And it’s the same story with almost all the claimed A-A kills (4 to 6) of IrAF, all but one or two (very interesting stories on themselves) of the aircraft claimed are wrecks on the desert floor. Again, the only “small” detail is HOW they ended up as wrecks, was it SAM or a MiG. In these (few) particular cases we talk about, it seems there were MiGs at fault.
Don’t think it’s worth mentioning about the other 2 or 3 IrAF claimed kills i’m aware of, as some folks here are going to have a heart attack.:D
mack8Truly what ? Anyway you’re in the wrong thread dude.
mack8They are all there Thobbes, among the 45 or so (maybe 50?) “coalition” aircraft shot down. But they are usually listed as SAM or “accidents”, and never admitted as being shot down air-to-air. Also, the process of actually crediting iraqi pilots with air-to-air kills was long and tortuous in many cases.
mack8Btw. A rather tragic episode overlooked or not known by most. I’m not sure if it started after the 1991 war or after the 2003 invasion (more likely), but it seems the former iraqi AF pilots are hunted down and killed one by one, so most hide ( hence it’s very hard to get their side of the story). Iranians are usually blamed for it, they say the fanatical clergy issues a fatwa against them etc.
But in light of the latest information about IrAF’s actions during the 1991 war , and the number of losses and kills they most likely actually had (and their implication on primarily America’s militaro-industrial alleged capabilities and performance), i wonder if it’s only the iranians who are hunting and killing IrAF pilots. Think about it.
mack8Yeah whatever dude. Believe what you want, believe AWST’s stories i don’t care, i actually just want to find out the TRUTH!
Btw, regarding the “coalition” kills during the 1991 war, if they claimed 37 and actually shot down 23, that means the PK of AIM-7M and AIM-9M is that much lower. I can think of numerous episodes in which scores of AIM-7 and 9 were launched without hitting anything or being decoyed ( f.e. 7 AIM-7 and 9 launched against low level Su-24s for no hits, or 10 AIM-7 and 9 launched against MiG-25’s for no hits, or the alleged 2 MiG-25 kills-actually only 1 being shot down- in which several AIM-7 and 9 missed or were decoyed etc. etc.)
So apparently for those 23 kills (bare in mind, couple might have been made with guns) a total of 71 AIM-7 and 76 AIM-9s were launched according to some sources. Yes i’ve heard about the “switch problems” with AIM-9s, which allegedly caused 20-30 un-commanded launches ( very dangerous if true, yet strangely i never heard of a fratricide) but i personally much doubt these stories.
Interestingly, despite “coalition” claims, it appears there were no iraqi aircraft shot down in 1992 or 93 ( they claim 3 i think), so down goes the alleged AMRAAM PK as well.
Either way, it appears the claimed PK for the AIM-7, 9 and 120 is rather wishful thinking more than anything. But then, i don’t think that would look good on Raytheon’s (or whoever builds them) PR.
mack8Aviation Week & Space Technology had an article about the missile that was filmed just before it hit the aircraft.
It was an interview with the pilot that the destroyed Mig would have shot down had another aircraft not been in the area and got the Mig before it launched.
The pilot said for the first time in his life he was truly scared as he knew another aircraft had a lock on him and he had no idea where it was.
There was no AWACS in the area which is why the pilot had no idea where the enemy aircraft was.
By the grace of God another U.S. aircraft saw what was happening before the Mig launched or it would have ended differently.
The only reason the Mig camera fimed the missile is because his gun camera was on due to the fact he was about to fire.
And that is some absolute and total rubbish. I’m sure you can explain why in that gun camera shot of yours strangely there doesn’t seem to be any symbols and numbers or a reticle, anything to actually look and be identified like a gun camera footage from a MiG-29.
Anyway, this is a pointless discussion, it was stated earlier in this thread where is that frame actually coming from, the yanks can believe whatever they want and make stories up to justify their POV as much as they want, it won’t change what really happened (which is not what they say it happened). It only makes them look ridiculous.
mack8Interweb buzz. Some anonymous made that PS, it was picked up by FARS (as incompetent in aviation matters as any western tabloid/news site of your choice), and shown on their news ( labeled as PS though- although this “detail” wasn’t mentioned by most western media).
mack8I think most of the upgrades Iranians announced are related to replacement of mission computers and radar blocks by more up-to-date hardware. The main goal would not be enhanced capability rather than possibility for future repairs and upgrades without the need of smuggling ex-AMARC stuff from the US.
As i understand it it appears that unfortunately for them IIAF receives very little funding from the higher-ups ( read the corrupt IRGC controlled government) so IIAF is more like maintaining ( or trying to maintain) a fleet in being, even if they might have some good in-country potential for relevant upgrades for their fleet of F-4, F-5 and F-14s (of which upgrades apparently only prototypes were built or only very few were upgraded). Instead they are forced to fly those (4 or 5) propaganda orientated Saeqehs with no real combat value etc.
mack8Heads should roll in Iran, Most amateur RC hobbyists can do a better job if given suff. funds, this puts iran’s defense industry in a bad light, and shows that they are poor even at making RC models that look sort of genuine.
Actually as i understand it, the head of IACI (apparently they built this Qaher mock-up) retired (or was retired) recently for “health reasons”.
mack8Hell, overclaiming and refusal to accept actual researched facts/numbers survive in the US official history even from WW2! So no wonder they all say (officially at least) the Sabres had 792 kills and 78 losses or whatever in the Korean war, or that they shot down and lost this much (can’t recall the figures they claim now) in Vietnam. God help anyone trying to actually say anything different! (same as the israelis btw)
Whether the americans will ever accept it or not is irrelevant, but the iraqis lost 23 aircraft and helos in air combat and shot down 4 to 6 “coalition” aircraft despite the overwhelming odds. Live with it.:)
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