joeyThat is a story-tellers blog whom I know, by no means I would take it for granted as the pic of nirbhay.
joeyDRDO making 1000km subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay
SUJAN DUTTA
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070720/asp/nation/story_8080771.asp
New Delhi, July 19: Indian defence scientists have taken up a new cruise missile development programme. The missile named Nirbhay (The Fearless) is in the same class as the US’s Tomahawk and will have a range that is 300km longer than Pakistan’s Babur.
Nirbhay is India’s seventh missile development project after the Agni series, the Prithvi series, Brahmos (in a joint venture with Russia), Akash, Trishul and Nag. The last three were part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme founded by A.P.J. Abdul Kalam.
Nirbhay is being developed alongside Astra, an air-to-air missile designed to hit targets beyond visual range.
A cruise missile can be guided to a target. A ballistic missile is fired at a pre-determined target. Nirbhay will carry onboard a terrain-identification system that will map its course and relay the information to its guidance and propulsion systems.
“Every modern military needs to have missile options. The requirement for Nirbhay was projected by all three armed forces to fill a gap in our missile programme,” Avinash Chander, the director of the Advanced Systems Laboratory, Hyderabad, who is in charge of the project, told The Telegraph in Delhi today.
Nirbhay will be a terrain-hugging missile capable of avoiding detection by ground-based radar. It would have a range of 1,000km.
“We have Brahmos, which is a supersonic cruise missile and the need was felt for a subsonic cruise missile that will be capable of being launched from multiple platforms in land, air and sea,” Chander said.
In the schedule drawn up for Nirbhay, a technology demonstrator is slotted for early 2009. Chander said the design for the system is complete and “hardware preparations are on”. He said Nirbhay would weigh around 1,000kg and travel at 0.7 mach (nearly 840kmph) and would be capable of delivering 24 different types of warheads.
The Pakistani subsonic cruise missile Babur (also called Hatf VII) has ranges of 500 to 700km. The US’s Tomahawk has many versions, the latest of which has ranges in excess of 1,500km.
So it is clear folks, Sagarika is a SLBM. Good show.
joeyDid I missed something here? :dev2:
Even so, its difficult to imagine that IN would want to operate/deploy three totally different Fighter types on it carrier fleet, when the whole modernisation trend in 21st century is to increase commonality/reduce fighter types.
btw vikas, True and that is the reason I see Mig 29K and LCA to serve only on ADS-2 as well, Perhaps Vikramaditya will be made more of training carrier or might be turned into a UCAV carrier with good helos for ASW role when the 3rd ADS gets launched..
But you see its a long way off. We are wondering what will happen 15 years after, I say all of our guess mates will change.
I think 3 types of AC for IN is fine, if they thinks they can operate them its fine. Because even if they are essentially 3 types of ac, lots of commnality will exist between their electronics package-weapons package to many other things.
joeyMig-29K is on its way and is likely to remain in operational service for next 30 odd years. IN is very much interested (with active funding?) in navalised LCA, which once operationalised should also remain in service for 30 odd years. Unless im mistaken, IN is planning to be operating 3 carriers over next few years, but how many fighter types do u realistically think IN would want to operationalise?
Depends on the size of the next 2 carriers, IIRC there will be 2 more carriers, some report mentions a total of 4 carrier fleet.
joeyHow will IAF acquire its multi-role jets?
NEW DELHI: The Indian defence ministry has dropped the life-cycle cost calculation for its coming tender for the 126 new Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) as there will be too many “imponderables” over the rather long life of these jets extending up to around 2050.
According to a report in the coming issue of India Strategic defence magazine, an advance copy of which has been made available to the media, a new Verifiable Cost Model (VCM) has been adopted, according to which the new aircraft should last either over a period of 40 years or an actual flying time of 6,000 hours, “whichever is earlier”.
The tender, technically called the Request for Proposals (RfP), should be out within this month or latest by mid-August according to current indications. Broadly, the following VCM parameters will be considered:
Direct Acquisition Cost or Initial Cost including that of weapons and spares; Warranty for the first two years; Licence Royalty for manufacture in India; Cost of Transfer of Technology; Cost of Initial Training; and Operating costs like consumption of fuel and lubricants.
While the Indian Air Force (IAF) has specified the multi role capability for the new jets, the India Strategic report said that the government would insist on Guaranteed Serviceability and Adequate Supply of Spares throughout the lifetime of the aircraft before finalizing the negotiations with the vendors.
This means that if a supplier wants to close down its assembly line, then it has to give this information well in advance and ensure that alternative arrangements are made, preferably within India.
Cost-escalation will be there and accepted but it will be based on “pre-established and well accepted indices for the duration of the contract”, India Strategic quoted unnamed sources as saying.
Inflation is part of the economy but there will be a cap in the final agreement, irrespective of unforeseen circumstances like political upheavals or sudden closure of a manufacturing facility.
India Strategic said that the finance ministry has cleared a budget of nearly $10 billion (Rs.42,000 crores) and the RfP should be out within this month “but not later than mid-August”.
As the project is huge, 50 percent direct offset has been mandated, preferably in the aircraft project itself. But according to Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutt, it could go to other defence projects “if India requires them”.
It may be noted that Dutt is the author of the Offsets policy that he had first mooted in 1994.
The government has accepted the IAF’s insistence that the aircraft should be the best available with potential upgrade capability.
While the technical requirements called the Air Staff Requirements (ASR) as laid down by a panel headed by the Vice Chief of Air Staff (VCAS) are secret and will be given only to the six foreign companies in the fray, IAF says the new aircraft should be able to execute missions from air defence to ground and maritime attack as well as reconnaissance.
Mid-air refueling capacity is a must for all new aircraft from now on.
The six vendors will be given six months to respond to the RfP, and after an evaluation of the technical documents, field trials of aircraft and their systems will be undertaken to match the claims of the manufacturer.
These will be followed by weapon tests in the country of respective manufacturer. The vendors will submit two documents — Technical Bids and Commercial Bids.
Commercial offers of only those who qualify technically will be opened and contract negotiations will be conducted with the lowest, or what is known as L-1, bidder.
After this is finalized, the defence ministry and IAF officials processing the contract will put up the contract for approval to the defence minister who will send it to the Cabinet Committee of Security (CCS) for final approval, and the tender would be awarded to the winner.
The defence ministry expects the first batch of 18 aircraft, which will be supplied in flyway condition, to be with IAF by 2012, thanks to the speedy and time-bound process envisaged in the recent Defence Procurement Policy (DPP) 2006.
The aircraft manufacturers will be free to choose public sector or private partners but as only the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has an established aircraft manufacturing facility in India, it will be the lead integrator.
Damn it is becoming impossible to pick the right choice to provide the right balance between everything.
So who will be staying in this forum till 2040? ..:(
joeySo there are delayed domestic missile programs and foriegn systems which have been purchased to make up balance.
Where does the new Indian ABM fit into this equation? Foriegn or domestic?
Wrong again, There were no Domestic project in LRSAM role to begin with. S300 was it was supposed to be, now no more S300 but Barak ER.
Where does Our New ABM fits into can only be answered with upcoming tests, just like Akash has gone through some ODD 30~40 succesful tests.
joeyWhere is the racism?
India graduates very large number of engineers, far larger than the needs of domestic industry and business.
Wrong! We are facing problem with retaining talent due to lack of proper management in certain sector and ofcourse money the honey.
Indian graduates are not enough to cater both industries, we are facing manpower crunch, and it remains a problem for us own including our defence establishments.
So many India engineers are forced to emigrate to find work. It all comes down to supply and demand. If wage scales in India were equal to those in the west, you would see an immediate end to the mass migration of India professionals. It all comes down to money. Individuals seek the highest wages, while businesses seek the workers who will accept the lowest wages.
Your previous point has already been proven wrong, in the same light you have commented this one. Mass migration is for wages and relating it to Indians working in Israel (regarding defence) is in DIRECT relation of your flame baiting without staying on topic.
Now if you want to find racism, look to India. Why are the lower castes and certain religious minorities so poorly represented in India’s tech sector?
Your idiocracy has stouped to new levels, My humble advise refrain from wondering socio-economic situations you dont know much about, before your stripped off your own iliteracy.
I can have a debate on the socio-economic condition or macro economic effects on specifics with you, but that is beyond the parametres of this forum.
Matt and Ankush I would take the 150 kms range with pinch of salt, nothing other than PTI report should be taken as granted, I can already see full of misinformation from reports by other news agencies where are they are already mixing up Akash with Barak ER with a 5x difference in range between them.
joeyNavy prefers Net-Centric Operations project of CAIR for assessing data flow
Link
Bangalore: With networking of weapons systems and sharing of battlefield data the only means of ensuring seamless information flow and improved joint command and control, the Indian Navy appears “very interested” in the Net-Centric Operations (NCO) project of the Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR).
The proposed indigenous NCO project from the Bangalore-based Defence laboratory will not only permit shared situational awareness among the various naval units, but also filter and process data flowing from the various thermal, visual, acoustic and radio frequency sensors from the same battlefield, allowing the battlefield commander to take speedy and effective decisions.
The CAIR laboratory, which was one of the ports of call during the Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta’s recent visit to Bangalore after assuming charge, demonstrated the capabilities of such an in-house NCO command and control system.
Seamless network
Sources told The Hindu that a seamless Net-centric battle management network would exponentially “enhance the Navy’s operational capabilities by linking various units and sending the information to the appropriate person at the right time”. Though indigenous, the project could see a few critical technologies being imported.
The Naval chief, who was on his maiden visit to India’s aeronautical capital, also visited the Indian Space Research Organisation, the Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS), the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) during his three-day visit to Bangalore.
He was accompanied by key Defence Research and Development Organisation personnel, including Chief Controllers (Research and Development) Dipankar Banerjee, N. Sitaram and Prahlada.
According to naval sources, the visit was a familiarisation trip, allowing Admiral Mehta to see first-hand what is happening in the research world, acquaint himself with new programmes and also to know what technologies were available. It also allowed him to know what work the various Bangalore-based research laboratories are doing both for the Defence forces as well as other government agencies.
Eyes and ears
While the Navy is already in possession of around ten of the ADE-developed subsonic reusable aerial target system, Lakshya, the LRDE has been the eyes and ears of the Navy, providing maritime patrol and 3D medium-range surveillance radars.
The Navy had also, in the past, been interested in the ADE’s Nishant UAV programme, which the laboratory demonstrated to the Coast Guard in 2006.
The Navy could also be interested in CABS’ Airborne Early Warning and Control System project that is being built for the Indian Air Force.
joeyOne has to remember We did not had any other LRSAM choice other than S300 PMU for IAF, Thus it seems no more S300 PMU and in replacement of the same Barak-ER instead.
By the way the little confusion that exists whether this budget of for Barak-ER alone or Barak NG+ER will be known only from next years MOD report.
Barak NG work with IAI and DRDO is been going on for ages.
But the hypocricy of the money involved is startling including home participation 🙂 compared to 40 crores for new 1500 hp engine developement.
joeyI think that if the RAF does (did) well, we’ll read a lot less about it than if the IAF did well…:diablo:
You will hear that when normally any exercise happens in India ;).
joeyVery true. But Typhoon also has an excellent set of avionics, and probably does enjoy a great advantage over MKI in terms of its smaller RCS (probably closest to F-22 of operationally deployed fighters). Having said this, years ago people talked a great deal about typhoon’s ability to win over SU-35 in BAE run simulations (i think ratio was 9:1 or something like that). Now both sides have a better chance of testing each other’s capabilities.
RCS difference like that does not matters ‘too-too’ much and it depends on platform versus platform, the difference in RCS and the detection range of both radars w.r.t that difference, MKI has gone through RCS reduction compared to the base fulcrum design. (there was a pic posted here long ago by sumeet on this issue)
And when external-loadout comes into scenario the difference in RCS if is not too much, having a powerful radar negates that.(RCS versus Range-Detection)
One can never compare a fighter with external loadout with that of internal loadout RCS.
However Typhoon is definitely a great and better placed bird with Tranche 3 coming up it’ll definitely be a superior bird, however a MLU to MKI with AESA and higher thrust engine will be helpful against Tranche 3 as well.
Typhoons power is awesome, That Euro Jet engine is impressive!
joeyMore BS from the media, ministry sources WHAT ministry sources? the same source Bs that they spouts when talking about “army sources”, “iaf sources” bla bla bla.
Total BS, if it is a SLBM and has 800 kms range, please check Br’s Agni article on the underwater platoon size!
I’m not mixing up anything Ankush, I DO know Some thing underwater was tested, was clear when M Natarajan was interviewd after Agni 3 where he DID clearly mentioned that.
Whatever it may be doubt still remains,
Is there anything named Sagarika? If YES,
Is it a SLCM or a SLBM, If it is a SLBM it ‘CANNOT‘ be of 800 kms range! IMHO.
I’m willing to bet my money of it being a CM if it was the thing tested before, more later 😉
joeyWhy should a specific thread, on a specific and distinct topic, be buried with all the other 30-odd topics on an already overloaded multi-page thread?
Just to satisfy someone who either needs to have all discussions of a particular navy on “his” thread (out-of-control ego), or who hates to see more than one thread on a particular navy (hates the sight of that nation’s name)?
Moderators, please leave this thread intact and non-merged.
Quick generalisations isnt conclusion.
The reason i said because the old thread has been quite newly created and has gone to its second page only.
joeyWidepanda, discuss it in the Misisle news thread where it has been posted.
for further discussions pelase carry on this old but not so old already created indian navy thread.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=69951&page=2
Moderators can merge them, Thanks!
joeyATV will carry SLBM IIRC, It was clear on that.
So this launched from ATV part seems vague to me for now and a medias own addition. , just like they does to all news.
What is more important is that,
This was made known at a Defence Research and Development Organisation function in New Delhi on Saturday where the team responsible for the development of the Sagarika was felicitated.
Prime Minster Manmohan Singh felicitated the defence scientists involved in the development of the cruise missile in New Delhi on Saturday.
So question remains about its,
1. Dimension
2. Propulsion
3. On which vessel will it be deployed.
4. VLS or TTL.
I’ll wait for official PTI or MOD or Desidoc report.
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