Twinotter – two things then, firstly, my comment regarding HLF was simply referring to their standard practise of claiming that they cannot discuss the precise details of communications which have taken place between the two parties. Ultimately, you have to discuss concepts in abstract terms in order to get any sense out of them.

As for the cost of consultancy work, I don’t doubt for a minute that this is the kind of figure you’d expect. That’s hardly the point is it? The point is that the amount of cash being demanded bears no relation to the actual amount of work required or the skills which might be necessary. It is, to use my quote from previous threads, a rather thick gravy train.

Frankly, when I hear the rather lame line about how Pleming selflessly gave-up his remarkably well-paid job to take-on the Vulcan, I can’t help wishing he hadn’t bothered. TVOC would probably have been no worse off and probably a whole lot richer as a result.

Chris – as I said previously, if you seriously are making that claim, then maybe you could offer us all a shred of evidence to support it? I’d be fascinated to know what kind of arduous tasks require a salary of 60k … do tell…

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to where you ‘saw’ some private expenses claims??

No I wouldn’t, for obvious reasons. But please don’t accuse me of simply making unsubstantiated claims – if you don’t believe me that’s fine!

As you say David, the project was never appropriate for commercial sponsorship. A former nuclear bomber is hardly a perfect PR medium. Even those companies that could have gained from association with the aircraft would naturally be reluctant to throw money at the project when they’d get little back in return, save for maybe a few comments from air show commentators. The option of covering the aircraft in some lurid sponsor paint scheme was never there (thank heavens) so it’s entirely understandable that few people have any appetite for sponsoring the aircraft. How long did we have to listen to Pleming claim that there was a line of prospective sponsors just waiting until the aircraft flew again. What nonsense! Now he would doubtless claim that they’ve all changed their minds because of the economy – how convenient.

Let’s be straight about this – the whole project would have come to a grinding halt had it not been for the HLF. It was their input which made it viable. I’ve always believed that the only way to keep the project alive would have been to secure yet more money from HLF. Naturally, TVOC and HLF both say that this wouldn’t be possible, but then they would, wouldn’t they… As I’ve said before, I think there was a good opportunity to convince HLF that having spent millions on the project, it would be a disgraceful waste of cash to then allow the aircraft to languish on the ground. It seems like a logical argument to me, but TVOC appear to have done nothing to pursue it.

I think it’s pointless dwelling on the history of the project though. Likewise, marvelling at Pleming’s hypocracy just raises one’s blood pressure. The important point is that the money is clearly going to run out either before next year’s display season, or by the end of it if we’re lucky. I don’t think anyone can dispute that fact any longer. So what should TVOC do? Just plod-along until the money stops? Or try and look at the most realistic way of keeping XH558 in an airworthy condition by ferrying her to the US where she can at least survive without British weather and the CAA. Admittedly, she might not find any benefactors there either but what’s the alternative? Just leave her grounded for weeks, then months, until the CAA make it impossible to ever get the aircraft airworthy ever again?

Surely, when the dwindling funds have reached the limits of enabling the aircraft to appear at any shows, the remaining funds should be used to get the aircraft out of the UK while it’s still possible. Otherwise the aircraft is going to stay grounded forever. I accept that the same fate might await in the US but as I’ve said, surely a slim hope is better than none? My fear is that this option won’t even be considered however. I think it far more likely that the passengers on the proverbial gravy train will stay on board until the train reaches the buffers.

isn’t it just! Loved this line –

No employee earned over £60,000 during the year.

Phew, that’s alright then!

It would be funny if it wasn’t so disgraceful. So much for being devoted to the aim of getting the Vulcan back into the air. Looking at those figures it looks more like one big gravy train…

I had to laugh at comments made by some people on a thread on another site, saying that it was obviously worth Pleming getting paid 60k. Have you ever heard such rubbish? Sorry, but that kind of figure doesn’t indicate someone who has the Vulcan’s interests at heart. Nobody has enough ability and talent to warrant that kind of money, especially when it’s supposed to be a “give every penny” drive to get the aircraft flying. Besides, what precisely, are his talents that are so valuable? Not communicating with people? talking a load of claptrap when he’s on TV?

Come on, this is just ridiculous.

Too expensive I’m afraid. I discussed the idea of re-equipping the RAFAT with a smaller batch of Tornado F3’s some years back – possibly even the idea of reforming the Firebirds. The outcome was that it’s simply far too expensive to operate front-line jets. Apart from their higher operating costs, they are too complicated to support, and keeping even five or so aircraft available for maybe three displays a day is just not practical. It would require probably ten or more aircraft, plus all the support infrastructure. Nice idea bit just not sustainable.

The RAFAT is almost certain to go when their Hawks go – I fear it’s as simple as that. Even the idea of re-equipping with Tucanos (or their replacement) seems to have drifted-away now as a viable option.

An awful lot of assumptions and misconceptions there! I don’t think anyone has suggested that Scampton should become nothing more than housing, it’s just that most people seem to think it will become housing. I think in all fairness, everybody on this thread would rather the airfield stay as an active RAF site, but I thought we were discussing what we think might happen to Scampton, not what we’d like to happen.

You mention Elvington but that is not a site where preserved aircraft can be flown. At present it’s merely an enclave attached to the (fenced-off) airfield site, in the former admin/tech area. Some of the aircraft do occasionally venture over to the runway a few times each year but now that the site looks set to be developed for private/biz flying, you can bet that the CAA will step-in and stop the warbirds from going anywhere near the runway before too long.

I don’t think Air Atlantique have ever shown any interest in Scampton, but then the site isn’t being offered for sale yet. In view of the way things are going at Coventry, I would think that they will have moved their historical aircraft to another airfield long before Scampton is put up for sale, so they’re unlikely to want to move again. Besides, it also raises the question of how all of their personnel would fancy travelling (or relocating) to N.Lincs.

As for air shows, rallies and so on, the short answer is that someone has to organise them and finance them. Who would do it? They’re hidesously expensive projects and I can’t imagine that anyone would have the finances (or desire) to buy Scampton, set-up any sort of museum facility and then arrange air shows too! It’s just not going to happen, the whole idea is just far too expensive to even contemplate, and that’s presupposing that anyone even wants to, and as far as I know, nobody does.

And as for Stirlings, what’s this all about? I’ve no idea what this has to do with Scampton at all. As far as I know, nobody has any plans to build a Stirling so why this would have any connection with Scampton is beyond me. The Vulcan is supposedly going to Duxford when the flying finishes.

I should point-out that merely said that there had once been a vague plan to develop Scampton into a museum site. This was a long time ago and, as far as I know, the idea has long since drifted away. So it’s rather academic to be discussing the pros and cons of such an idea as it’s not going to happen. I would imagine that the main reason why Duxford has flourished is simply because it’s been there for a long time. It was the first site to be developed into a “living museum” and once established, it’s obviously unlikely that a similar concept would spring-up elsewhere. I guess that with the benefit of hindsight it would have been better if Scampton had been the home of Duxford’s collection, as Duxford is now inevitably hampered by the severely shortened runway and the growing difficulties of being situated in an area where noisy aeroplanes are becoming tolerated less easily.

But what’s done is done. Duxford is a great success and despite the airfield’s disadvantages, it’s sure to remain. Scampton on the other hand, is an airfield without a purpose. There’s no need for any airport anywhere near that region and there’s evidently no requirement for a military airfield any longer. General aviation might be a possible outcome but with places like Sturgate not so far away, it seems unlikely. Housing seems like the obvious fate for the site but given the location, which is significantly distant from Lincoln, it might not be such an attractive area, especially when the former RAF domestic site has already degenerated into a less-than delightful estate. Now that the construction industry has hit hard times, I doubt if housing will be a possibility for many years but I guess it might happen at some time in the future.

My guess is that Scampton is more likely to simply be abandoned, the hangars and other buildings being sold for industrail use, while the airfield returns to agriculture, either around the concrete or in place of it. Not a good outcome for such a historic site but there doesn’t seem to be any other option. The only really practical means of keeping the airfield in business would be if the RAF had shifted their assets accordingly so that other less-historical bases might have been sacrificed instead. But I guess the RAF’s not in the business of historical sentimentality. It’s a sad business but then we could probably fill this page with a list of other famous stations which have suffered the same fate.

nobody want’s to live ‘up north

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