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Viewing 15 posts - 526 through 540 (of 1,104 total)
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  • in reply to: Hawk arrived at DX? #1352840
    setter
    Participant

    Exactly!!!!!

    in reply to: Hawk arrived at DX? #1352854
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Guys

    It probably is amusing to the TFC to have the crate there and have everyone guessing – they probably enjoy the sport as much as you do – you don’t think they read this forum – think again – just imagine what goes on in the tea room conversations.

    Regards
    John P

    in reply to: Mosquito KA114 rebuild #1353988
    setter
    Participant

    Mark and Dave

    I don’t want to go into specific companies or sales but I was quoting apples with apples ie a complete flying P40 @ 20-30% of what you are quoting for a Spit and thats a fact – When a P40 is openly put on the market (recent sale) for US $1M it will sell for less and that less is around Aus $1m or 400.000 pounds sterling or 20% of the UK price of a Spit rebuild in Blighty.

    I sugest you have a chat with Pioneer or Avspecs on the NZ price of a Spit – I didn’t ask but I suspect it’s a lot less than NZ $5m. There are/were 8 to 10 Spits being rebuilt in NZ and costs could be compared easily enough

    Bruce

    There are serious amounts of Mossie metal down here – I remember about 15 sets recovered from Narromine in store at the HARS facility near Sydney so I think the potential is quite good given the NZ moulds have happened and seem to produce a Fuse pretty dam quickly

    Regards
    Guys
    john

    in reply to: Mosquito KA114 rebuild #1354261
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Bruce

    Well said . The wing and fuse I saw were stuffed as have been every Mossie that was disposed of around Narromine where I grew up – I suspect that in the case of Mossies in Australia there will always be a source of some of the metal as so many just rotted into the ground. The climate preserved much of the metal. I do however suspect that a lot of parts in NZ will be new build.

    Mark

    I agree with your assumptions about the probable Mossie re use of parts I was stating that in an ideal world you would ask for all new parts. The site mentions in fact that a lot of the metal is being reused. As I stated above there is a lot of metal about to choose from in Aus and NZ as many were left to rot into the ground.

    I would say however that in NZ /Aus for instance a P40 with almost totally scratch built structure would be 20 to 30% of the price you quote for a Spit – something is wrong here ?

    Regards
    John P

    in reply to: Hawk arrived at DX? #1354383
    setter
    Participant

    TBYGUY

    Ask Melvyn, he is the project director for the Stirling now he has completed the Rewind Clobbermiester and it has been taken on charge as the new NATO deterent.

    Melve will soon be moving a convoy of containers down to the wee hanger to begin fettling the beast. Prior to the commencement however there will be a two week ceremony of acceptance at which time Melve will convene a closed meeting of the inner sanctum of the Clique of honour. Whereupon he and the chosen ones will consume vast quantities of coffee and stale cake and sandwiches and vote for the title of “Sacred slagger”.

    After each vote Melve burns a specially treated collegue in the restraunt fireplace and the desciples of Melve watching from outside know if the new slagger has been elected Black for no white for yes. As usual Melve rigs it so he always wins – never have an election if you don’t know the answer.

    Melve was supposed to be in Italy this week working as a consultant on a similar process but the Bloody Stirling turned up and he had to phone the advice in – they seem to be doing it OK but as Melve says – Bloody Italians …….what did they ever do for the world.

    Anyway that wots in the box and wots appenin to it mates….. and Melve assures me it will be at leg ends ………one year

    Kindest regards
    John P

    in reply to: Hawk arrived at DX? #1354644
    setter
    Participant

    Hi

    It’s the first instalment of the Stirling from China plus a shipment of data plates.

    Regards
    john P

    in reply to: Mosquito KA114 rebuild #1354662
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    No if it were my Mossie I would ask the chaps to make all new “Non wood bits” and leave the old bits on the old wooden bits and restore 3 or less static mossies and I think that is the point of my posts. I don’t have a problem at all with total new builds and the assumption of existing identities. My main point as I keep re iterating is that we can have the best of both worlds if we static restore the old bits and pass them on and construct new build aircraft to fly. The less old bits flying about the better I say and the greater trust I have in the overall integrity of an airframe.

    At present we do have an issue with engines but even that will be solved in time and technology at least with mainstream types such as P&W, Allison and Merlin maybe even DB 601/605.

    I think we are really at the same point here you are more focused on the provinance issues which can be circumvented if the passed on scrap is stripped of it’s identity and just restored as a representative of the type rather than linked to the source identity.

    Anyway a good discussion here on both threads

    Kindest regards
    John P

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1354865
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Bruce

    Your post is fantastic and definately what I witnessed at the HFL facility was as you stated. The point I am making is that this is not the case at a lot of shops at the moment where machines are built on production lines – quite correctly – and may discard most of the reference parts and only use the identities – The point is a lot of these parts are being scrapped and as your Hurricane example identifies they could be dispersed amongst a host of static restorations.

    I salute your efforts and I am sure there is always a way around the provinance issue if people try harder – well done and thanks

    Kindest regards
    John P

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1354876
    setter
    Participant

    Hi all

    This is going very well – well done chaps a very good and interesting debate and a lot more of what the forum should be than where we have been of late. The Mossie thread is also very facinating stuff at present.

    Thanks for the input and lets keep it going

    Kindest regards
    John P

    in reply to: Mosquito KA114 rebuild #1354887
    setter
    Participant

    To all

    The Mossie was/is in bad shape and as it happens Glyn has built the new “universal” moulds which allow any Mosquito version to be constructed from scratch. This is entirely in line with my thread on warbirds scrapping,

    New mossies can be built and the original wood could be preserved if possible and fitted with non airworthy metal – two mossies!!!. It is of course a little more difficult with a Mossie given it’s construction to rebuild one – there are no original structures flying and I suspect there may never be with the possible exception of the extensively reconstructed Canadian example.

    As to why do it in New Zealand – Have you seen the exchange rate USD Vs NZD as well as the lower wages and the less litegous legal system. There are currently in excess of 30 WW11 Warbirds in Australia and New Zealand undergoing restoration for US collectors and the reasons are obvious. The US industry has begun to price itself out of the market and the legal system may well finish it off if legislators don’t do it for them . Far easier to send the planes downunder to the “factories” . You get good quality at a far cheaper price.

    Regards
    John P

    in reply to: Mosquito KA114 rebuild #1355986
    setter
    Participant

    Wow

    I was there in Feb at Glyns and the progress since then on the wood is fantastic – well done – when we visited I never imagined that it would progress this fast – well done.

    Regards
    John P

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1356345
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    No what I am saying is let the identity be used and if stuff is reused great for flying rebuilds but what of the rest.

    My sole point is I stuck my head in a lot of scrap hoppers and asked a lot of questions and I am quite sure of my facts in stating that a lot of stuff that could form the basis of good static rebuilds is being scrapped – thats all . So why can’t this be used / sold /donated for static rebuild purposes as happens in some cases. It’s just a waste pure and simple

    I am also not a fan of placing much 60/80 year old material in new restorations either – a personal point of view is that I would rather that a high performance fighter was a new build and all the old stuff went into static rebuilds which is my main point here.

    You have guys like Harvard IV and others wanting to crawl all ove jungles and sewerage ponds looking for exactly the stuff that is then scrapped – it’s a funny old world

    Provinance that is not backed but substance is not povinance to me but as you say we can happily agree to disagree on that point.

    Kindest regards
    John p

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1356358
    setter
    Participant

    Hear hear Martin –
    want to rent a truck and do some midnight spares?
    John

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1356382
    setter
    Participant

    Martin,

    The hard commercial world dictates that the airworthy end result from this practise is an aircraft that is seen to be much more valuable than one that is all new with no linkage provenance back to an original. Take that ‘added value’ away and the maths, at best fragile, do not work for the majority of collectors/restorers.

    Mark

    Very true Mark

    But all based on a lie or a sham – even the ID plate is a repro on some of this stuff. Don’t get me wrong I would far rather fly in something built last week than last century but the point is we are destroying history to build entertainment. Something just has to be done to change marketplace perception –

    A lot of this is based upon outmoded registration process demanding identity and provinance – if the registration legislation was changed to more easily allow a replica to assume the identity of a destroyed machine perhaps this would change value perceptions out there. I don’t know but the current situation is a bit of a farce.

    Regards
    John P

    in reply to: Scrapping warbirds – a real waste #1356392
    setter
    Participant

    Hi Dave I’m afraid I have witnessed this in the UK recently and in other countries – I can give examples but that is unfair on line PM me if you want UK names but I would like to have access to these sites again sufice to say I have photos etc and it does happen on a largish scale and as Mark 12 says companies don’t want the embarrassment of two aircraft with the same identity turning up.

    Regards
    John P

Viewing 15 posts - 526 through 540 (of 1,104 total)