While Drakens are fascinating, and inarguably sleek…
There is something to be said for compact and workman-like.
Beautiful shots of the Sk60(Saab 105) Bager! Long ago I was fortunate enough to get to fly the Sk60 on three occasions. A great aircraft!
Robban,
I disagree with you when you say that the Rafale drops the tail when turning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWRImSlVuE
Some turns are high AOA, but in this video you can see many that aren’t and where the tail doesn’t drop at all.
Hi Nic! 🙂
The FCS world is quite complicated. But it seems that Dassault and Saab has gone different ways here. Airliners.net have many good pics of fighters pulling G’s at airshows. As you can see the pics I posted in my previous post shows rather well how the elevons are pointed slightly upwards on the Rafale, which tells me that the Rafale uses the elevons for pitch, and not the canards. The Gripen very clearly uses the canards for pitch. So, even though they look alike they don’t maneuver alike. I always thought they did until I did som digging. The video you posted is a little bit too shaky and unclear. I found this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzxoXwn2Ik4 and it shows it better that the Rafale indeed uses the elevons for pitch.
Here’s a screenshot from the link above showing the Rafale just as it starts a rapid pitch up.
I agree with you the Gripen is very agile, but I am not sure the Gripen enjoys an instantaneous advantage over the Rafale; and thanks to a better T/W the Rafale enjoys an advantage in sustained manoeuvering.
I don’t really know if the Gripen has a higher ITR than the Rafale, I’m just guessing. However I’m quite sure the Rafale has a higher STR.
Comparing to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACDGkNa77Rs&feature=related
The gripen pilot doesn’t seem to make as aggressive a demo, and you can’t see many high AOA turns, but if you look closely you still see similar turns in the Rafale demo once in a while.
Nic
Well, the hungarian Gripen solo is better I guess. Henric Holm who flies the swedish 39A displays is IMO the best display pilot we have. But I must admit that the hungarians and the czech displays are more action packed!:) I’d like to see a french pilot put a Gripen through its paces at an airshow though!
The Rafale has a very good TWR which is probably why its display has alot of high AoA turns and the Gripen doesn’t. I guess the Rafale can better sustain/regain its energy during these maneuvers than the Gripen.
Edit:
The high AoA fly past also shows a difference in the way the control surfaces are used.
Rafale. Canards, in neutral position ~similar AoA as the main wing, elevons negative. http://www.airliners.net/photo/France—Air/Dassault-Rafale-B/1017971/L/
Gripen. Canards, low AoA, elevons negative. http://www.airliners.net/photo/Sweden—Air/Saab-JAS39A-Gripen/0911611/L/
For those who like the Viggen, and for those who can read swedish, I stongly recommend this book!
It’s a new release, it holds some very detailed stories, such as Viggen vs SR-71, climb/speed record attempts, comparisons between the MiG-23, Mirage F1 and the JA37, etc etc.
One pilot explains that from a standing start on a cold day, the Viggen could reach 10,000 meters in less than 90 seconds.
OLD PIC of first design. Heres newer design in production. Robban compare pic with Mig 21 (birds eye view) and then get back to me. EDIT, I added mig 21 pic.
The wing is clearly not an exact copy of the MiG-21 wing, but the JF-17’s wing has some design elements comparable to the MiG-21. As mentioned in my previous post, the shape of the ailerons and flaps, and especially the non twist wing. It looks like a mix between a MiG-21 wing and an F-16 wing. But it could very well be an all new wing design. I’m just curious why there’s no wing twist. With the ailerons placed at the outer part of the wing, twisting the wing would help delaying the stall at the wing tip and maintain good aileron control at higher AoA’s, as well as giving it more even stall characteristics.
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