As for my time in the US Air Force, I was always told our mission was to kill people and blow stuff up.

Then perhaps you missed out on something important. Most USAF personnel I’ve communicated with have expressed sentiments and moral principles which are completely different from yours.

As for not caring about the Arab body count. All I see on the news is them chanting “Death to America!” “Death to Israel!” and burn our flag and ram planes into buildings.

What you see on the news is not necessarily representative of the Arab world as a whole. Much of the media is caught in its own habit; focusing on events which can be made into sensations spurring attention and feelings. Sober, balanced, unbiased and objective news reporting isn’t the biggest business in the world today.

So why should I care when we bomb and kill them?

If you don’t think it’s important to differentiate between fighting personnel and unarmed civilians, then perhaps you share some of the same moral principles as the bulk of terrorists.

Now, I don’t mean to act as a forum police. I don’t mean to say whether your opinions are “right” or “wrong.” I just want you to know that I disagree with some of what you’ve expressed so far.

Speaking as a moderator, I’ve always found that so long as both sides in an argument accuse you of bias, you can be reasonably sure that you’re getting the balance right. :D:D:D

Great failsafe! 😀

Calm will once again come to the area, it will not be because of overwhelming military destruction, it will not be due to any reversal of ideology, it will be due to a negotiated settlement. In the meantime hundreds of lives on one side and thousands on the other will have been wasted.

All in the name of religious belief.

…what a wonderful world…

Whether you believe it was Christ or Muhammad that gave us words of devine wisdom we should live by with each other, how come it is only those who remain tolerant of either argument have grasped the collective wisdom of it, and those who claim to be followers, however devout, have missed the point entirely.

How many more jumps in evolution will it take for humans to realise their fate in the future does not come from a book written way back in the past.

Hear, hear.

Fortunately, the scourge of religion does not include all human beings, and some of those who are encompassed by it are able to master it in proper ways, e.g. by keeping it to themselves and refraining from (ab)using it as some asinine incentive to go around and hurt people who happen not to agree with them.

wow there’s quite a number of anti-israel sentiment.. some of which are coming from Americans even!

What exactly is your point?

Why is it “anti-Israeli” to criticise Israel on a basis which has nothing to do with its right to exist? I sometimes criticise my own country and its people for this and that. Does that make me an anti-Norwegian?

Is it your opinion that Americans form some sort of a homogeneous unity which should share one common sentiment about Israel?

Like the millions that have died in Africa from famine and warfare

The forgotten millions. The world seems to “forget” about those all the time. They represent issues which, measured in human lives, are far greater than those of other hot spots in the world today. Still it seems to me that more people are a lot more into the lesser issues.

So what’s a few Arab, oh I mean “Palestinian” civilians dead, they are just terrorist in waiting as far as I’m concerned.

Perhaps some Palestinian terrorists support a similar version of that sentiment, e.g. that Israeli civilians are potential IDF personnel and are therefore legitimate targets?

As I’ve stated before; you’re entitled to your own opinion. I disagree with you, though.

US law is not international law and UN law has no teeth so why should anyone obey it?

So you think it’s entirely OK to e.g. commit acts of terrorism because other elements have resorted to such actions?

Is there anybody in this forum that has served in the military?

Several, as far as I know. Including me.

Its seems like most folks here don’t have a understanding of war and conquest.

I was more into rifle squad tactics, air defence and flight procedures.

I want them dead and I don’t care how many “innocents” die to accomplish this. They allowed their regilon to be hijacked by extremists and have done nothing to remove the radicals from power, so they are gulity.

Those words share a striking similarity with statements made by different terrorist organizations.

if it means turning the Middle East into a giant sheet of glass so that everything I care about survives then so be it!!

I’m surprised they even accept individuals with such views in the U.S. armed forces.

I’m not a moderator, but I would like to suggest that flex297 and Sens try to maintain some courtesy.

I don’t know exactly what Israeli civilians go through either and I can’t say I would like to live in the area with the threat of some nut job walking into the local mall and blowing himself up always in the back of my mind…..

The casaualties are very regrettable, and despite what the other side will say, I don’t see the Israelis specifically targeting the Lebanese civilian population. What do they have to gain by it? It’s called collateral damage. It’s very tragic and unfortunate, but it’s the truth……

I completely agree.

targets that are part of terrorist infrastructure. Unfortuantely because the Lebanese themselves weren’t able to get rid of Hezbollah or at least disarm them, then many targets in the country are used to aid in terrorist operations.

I’m not too comfortable with the potential objectives behind those early interdiction strikes which were directed at e.g. road intersections, bridges etc. I’d be surprised if they actually made much of a difference for Hizbollah’s mobility in southern Lebanon.

Nobody wants civilian casualties, but when you’re fighting people who use civilians as shields then casaulties are to be expected.

Indeed.

You can’t defeat the enemy by limiting yourself in the fight.

This one is a bit relative. I’ve already tried to explain why.

A ground invasion seems to be very strongly opposed by most people, and yet that seems to be the most efficient way of getting rid of the terrorists……

I don’t think the Israelis have much of a choice. OEF and OIF should be enough to prove that combined operations is the (temporary) answer on how to fight terrorists, rebels etc. operating in densely populated civilian environments.

So let’s look at this situation……

Israel hits terrorist targets from the air in an attempt to degrade Hezbollah’s forces so that they can offer little resistance. Some civilian casualties are reported, and all of a sudden they should stop their operations completely…..

Okay so we go to the ground forces option……..nobody seems to want that and even Lebanon has said they will fight the Israelis if that happens…..

So Israel stops that potential operation……and what happens?

They won’t, but I see your point.

Hezbollah continues their operations simply lobbing rockets and other such munitions into Israel and yet the world says Israel isn’t allowed to retaliate.

Am I the only one that finds something wrong with this conclusion?

As I’ve perceived things, “the world” does not maintain a single, unilateral opinion on this issue. Different words have been voiced. However, many seem to be very worried about the extent of collateral damage caused as a result of Israeli air operations.

So you really think this bombing will decrease the numbers of Hizzbollah and Hamas??

There is no way in hell that interdiction strikes from the air will damage Hizbollah sufficiently. I’m not even sure if they make much of a difference other than creating a lot of unwanted feelings which provide a catalyst for motivating new recruits to join the effort against Israel.

I believe that a temporary answer lies in ground operations, both special and conventional, with limited air support. Still, you need to seek additional solutions if you intend to contain the problem in the long term. An international deployment (with teeth and backbone) could be something.

Without Europe deciding to act alone, and without the US not vetoing every damn UNSC resolution that talks bad about the poor Israelis, this won’t get fixed. End of story.

It has to do with lobbysits and guilt. Some idiot politicians still think that we owe something to Israel because of what Hitler did in WWII. Why anybody other than the beaten Nazi regime or Chamberlain should have felt or owed anything to the Jewish people after WWII is beyond me. Anyway, other politicians are elected using money from Jewish lobbyists and are therefore less likely to take a stance which the Jewish voters might find wrong.

They can murder US sailors and sell our technology to China, but we don’t care, they’re the awesome Israelis! This kind of blind support is absolutely disgusting.

Shack! On the nail, firm and hard.

On a sidenote, it’s almost amusing to see how some pro-Israeli individuals or groups frantically raise the convenient “anti-semitism card” whenever they want to silence criticism, discredit critics or appeal to the scourge of undeserved guilt and sympathy which still hangs heavy above many people. I’m pleased and almost surprised that people in this thread so far have managed to act better than that.

I’d feel the same way about fighting Hizbollah or Hamas…..I’d kill every one of them given the chance without thinking a second thought about it……part of me wants to be in the IDF/AF to do just that…..

…and at the end of the day there will be another bunch of highly motivated people virtually lining up to join one of these organizations, some of them being grossly antagonized by the IDF’s record of collateral damage.

The use of force might provide temporary solutions to some terrorist issues, but in order to attain a sustainable and working solution you need to start thinking differently. Attempts at identifying, understanding and working against the root(s) of the problems could be a start. Although terrorism will most likely continue to exist for some time, removing the factors which wake support for terrorism might, in time, help to dry out the basis which the terrorists need in order to sustain high and lasting activity.

Right now, Israel is probably doing exactly what the Hizbollah, Damascus, Teheran and who knows else, wish for and had anticipated as a result of the kidnappings prior to the actual events; offensive operations entailing collateral damage which is antagonizing lots and lots of people. Some of these people will in turn, voluntarily or involuntarily, help provide for the political agendas of those mentioned before, not to mention recruits for those already engaged in battle with Israel. The Israeli defense mechanism is actively feeding its opponents while simultaneously trying to suppress and defeat them. The same basically goes for the current opponents. They’re biting their own tails. The tragedy of the conflict is apparent.

Israel does have the right to defend itself against terrorists targeting Israeli cities with rockets, but I’ll be damned if the Hizbollah hurts all that much due to IDF/AF interdiction strikes against Lebanese civilian infrastructure. Or what do you think, IluvtheF4E?