because if we’ll give this land to anything less than a Palestinian country with zero terrorists in it, I won’t feel safe.

I can understand that, but do you actually think that Israel and the PA will be able to contain the terrorist threat in the near future? As I’ve come to understand things, the frustration which resides in the minds of many Palestinians will most likely continue to provide the circle of violence with momentum. Fed by Israeli military incursions, civilian casualties, the presence of Israeli settlers etc., how do you expect the level of frustration to decline enough for terrorism to cease?

I realize that many Israelis suffer due to terrorism, and I support Israel’s right to, with reasonable efforts, defend its citizens from e.g. the terrorist threat, but how on Earth do you expect this threat to disappear as long as Israel continues to maintain its pressure on the Palestinian population? Surely most Israelis are well aware of the fact that the occupation effectively feeds the beforementioned mechanism which is at work here, just as most Palestinians should know that terrorism won’t solve anything?

I gather that the issue of defence is among the reasons why Israel sustains its presence on the Western Bank. In simple terms, this measure itself is among the factors which trigger the very threat which it is designed to counter. Am I getting somewhere with this?

In a previous discussion, I recall that you mentioned something about an increasing distance between most Israelis and the settlers. How is this relationship developing? Are the levels of public acceptance and support for the settlers declining in any way?

Ahhh, so they thought it would take too long…

Actually I think they were afraid that a peace enforcement operation would suffer heavy casualties on the ground. Not that any Western military casualties would have become very extensive compared to Rwandan civilian casualties.

So you are saying it doesn’t matter what skin colour is involved, or how many are dying

Actually I’m not saying that it doesn’t matter. It won’t surprise me if I ever discover that I’m actually right, either.

it is how long it takes to fix and how many men are needed to fix it… Easy quick problems first, hard deeper issues later on, or never…

Operational conveniency does have an influence on decisions. It’s probably one of the reasons why the UNSC declined to create a mandate for a no-fly zone over Darfur. Not that the Balkans were ever “easy.”

yeah… that sounds like the sort of world policeman we want…

The US’ will and ability to deal with these sort of problems are far from perfect, but let’s not forget that other UN members were in the loop as well. What about Russia, China, India, Germany, France, UK… What about other African countries?

Really? I haven’t heard how many were killed for being Gypsies or being Gay. Can you tell me? I can estimate that between 4.5 and 5 million soviet prisoners died in captivity.

I can’t recall any specific numbers, but I think that the Holocaust cost the lives of between five and six million non-Jews.

The fact that he was no longer in power makes that OK?

I wasn’t referring to the extradition, but rather why so many Serbs rallied in the streets of Belgrade shortly before he stepped down.

Have we accepted that was a baby milk factory yet?

Are you referring to the alleged Iraqi “baby milk factory” which was targeted around 24 January 1991?

But Madeline Albright couldn’t wait to get into Kosovo so she could punnish that evil serb milosovich for what he had done in the balkans.

An intervention in Rwanda would probably have required a large deployment of ground forces for a sustained period. The Americans (along with the rest of the UN, I reckon) were worried that a peace enforcement operation in Rwanda could lead to yet another failure in the African theater.

Garry, I’m ashamed that the UN didn’t do more to stop the conflict in Rwanda. As I’ve told you before; there is no need to push it on me.

A democratically elected leader was handed over to NATO for cash…

And what about his resignation the year before?

but the only list heard is the list of the Jews…

I’ve read and heard about the casualties sustained by most of the different groups ever since I first learned about World War II.

We think of Iranians are rational, intellegent people instead of fanatical idiots, as opposed to most Americans.

When talking about Iranian political and religious leaders and “most Americans;” define we.

I suppose Zarqawi was operating for the US government when he blew up buildings in Jordan too? :rolleyes:

The Cigarette-Smoking Man and his associates administered al-Zarqawi’s payroll. Don’t tell me that you didn’t know?! 🙂

NATO is hardly going to admit wrong doing and will try to explain its actions knowing no one can verify either way.

NATO did report incidents which occurred in connection with the air operations during ALLIED FORCE, including the bombing of a Kosovo Albanian refugee convoy as well as the Chinese embassy.

Are you able to verify Serb claims; some of which, as far as I know, have been debunked by external parties such as Amnesty Int. and Human Rights Watch?

Well surely it would have had to have been millions to justify the response.

Why?

Afterall Rwanda was 600,000 and nothing happened there at all.

Apparently the United States was reluctant to intervene, fearing it would be dragged into an African quagmire. The experiences from Somalia were rather fresh back then. Without a sufficient U.S. military momentum, other UN member countries weren’t willing to do much, or so I gather.

In fact NATO airpower did diddlysquat except annoy civilians.

Right. Perhaps you should investigate it further.

and which dictator has to be removed

Which was done by who, in the case of Milosevic?

20 million plus dead Soviets havent got your sympathy, why would a mere 6 million jews get mine?

I have an immense respect for the incredible sacrifices made by the Soviet Union during World War II, but I don’t agree with your usage of the word “mere” to describe Jewish casualties. It might not matter much here, but between 17 and 25 percent of those Jews came from the Soviet Union.

the world owes them a free ride forever…

I’m very annoyed by this issue as well.

…It’s you hit me, I hit you, you hit me, I hit you, You hit me, I hit you…

Hear, hear…

…there is light in the tunnel when someone retains from hitting back anylonger…

Guess who’s going to get excessively drunk if they actually manage to achieve a mutually acceptable solution some day… 🙂

I don’t see how Iran getting the bomb will change the lives of Palestinians…unless it is used against Israel

Nuclear weapons, Israel and the Palestinians..

The Levant isn’t that big, and from what I understand, the Palestinians really want to live there in the future as well. In this context, employing nuclear weapons against targets in Israel would be very counter-productive for the Palestinian cause. One would practically have to be a severe mental myope in order to think that a nuclear attack on Israel would improve the situation for the Palestinians.

Oh dear, it’s turned ugly…..bound to happen.

The situation in the Gaza Strip, this thread, or both?

Regarding this thread; I think it’s clear that some people need to put away their blinding antagonism and try to stay objective. Using bad names and acting without respect for one another isn’t contributing to anything constructive, hence this thread may spiral into more needless polarization and flaming. By know just about everyone should know what these “discussions” usually lead to. There might not be other warnings.

You dumbsh*t

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the content of post no. 24 (Grey Area) in this thread.

Some jewish and some christians who blindly back Israel policy no matter what, lobby our congress. Woe be it to anyone who gets in the way.

Aye. 😡

Great post, by the way. Although I may not agree with every bit of it, I think you’ve made some very valid points.

Some people don’t realise that the Palestianians won’t be happy until Israel no longer exists

I don’t think this has much to do with Hamas’ victory in the election. As far as I know, surveys indicate that only a minority among the Palestinians actually have such extreme views. Fewer are willing to do anything serious about it; none are able to achieve it. I guess the same applies to Israelis with views reciprocal to those which you have described.

Attempts at fitting the entire Palestinian populace into your binary perspective won’t take you anywhere.

and all I can say is the Palestianians should consider themselves lucky I ain’t in charge of Israel cos people wouldn’t be asking if Israel has nukes, and Palestine, Syria, Iran and any other country that threatened to wipe out my people would be unihabitable 😡

I guess such statements reveal a certain something about your ability of deduction. Engaging in a nuclear holocaust against neighbouring countries because of statements made by a very limited range of individuals whose visions and intentions concerning Israel are not representative of that region is, well, slightly* revealing. Also, Israel wouldn’t exactly be a very pleasant place to stay if such events were to occur, now would it?

By the way; I didn’t realise that Palestine is an existing country.

* Gross understatement