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August 11, 2006 at 8:47 am in reply to: Short stirling wreck #1257791

HP57
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DS

Don’t know for sure but I think august 1989, it hadthe Shuttleworth Hawker Hind on the frontpage IIRC and the the slogan Stirling Survivor.

A piece of wingspar and a battery were brought up and looked to be in good condition.

Cees

August 11, 2006 at 8:31 am in reply to: Short stirling wreck #1257808

HP57
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What ever becameof the wreck of the stirling in the North sea? I recently acquired a bunch of aeroplane mags and there was an article in one of them about diving on a stirling wreck?

Peter,

You mean EF311? Still down there probably being slowly being grinded to bits by the tide. In the two Aeroplane Monthly magazines a sketch was published showing the fuselage and wings substantially intact although the top of the fuselage was gone and the upper wingsections not in good condition either.

Will probably stay there forever because of the location (busy shipping), salt water and lack of funds. Pity really. Even the bits could be used as patterns for a restoration. Technically this is the only survivor (apart from the Russian one).

Cees

August 11, 2006 at 8:16 am in reply to: Duxford Firefly on the move ? #1257863

HP57
Participant

You’re missing the point Cees, a Spitfire especially one with a good covenant is worth a lot of money, probably more than a Firefly. If ARC restore the MkIX back to flying condition, sell it and then utilise the funds to put the Firefly back in the sky, I don’t see anything wrong with that. Though, I am not for one minute, suggesting that is what they intend to do.

See there is an advantage to having 6 fingers on each hand !!!!

EN830,
Aha! the cat’s out of the bag!! 😮

So a Spitfire is worth a lot of money. So it doesn’t matter if it has a historical value for a country other than the UK. SO if you wave your wallet and shove some bits of scrap aircraft into the general direction of the poor museum involved then there is no other way but to get it out, rip it to bits, replace what’s necessary (destroying some orginality here and there) and get if flying. So, if I give enough money to the long suffering RAF Museum to take Halifax W1048 off their hands so that it can finally be restored in Holland (not exactly where it would belong, but who cares) that would be a win win situation irrespective of the few UK Halifax afficionados would be crying at the gate near Harwich when the lowloaders depart for the Hook?

The result? Museums with wrecked airframes of dubious provenance, but with lots of cash (just a guess) and several squadrons of Spitfire IX’s at airshows where bored people stay away from en masse.

I like it!! 😀 :dev2: :diablo:

Seriously, this is a good discussion. Let’s take it further (without teddies or hadbags) to see what good this will do to preservation.

So, do we need squadrons of Mk IX Spitfires in the air, or is diversity a better option. And what rights do National Museums have?

Cheers

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 7:47 pm in reply to: Duxford Firefly on the move ? #1258223

HP57
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Lets see now, ARC acquire a number of Fireflies from Sweden in 2004, they are kept in storage for a short while, one “SE-CAU” is disposed off in a deal that brings a potentially airworthy Spitfire back to the UK. The Dutch get a Firefly to play with and lose a Spitfire, a type which they have several of in any case.

In the meantime ARC restores Dutch Spitfire to fly, sells Spitfire to collector for a nice profit, the profit is pored into the remaining Firefly which also returns to the air.

Sorry am I missing something here, this is a win win situation, right ????? Two airframes returned to the air, a third restored to static display condition.

To me the chance to see a Firefly return to the skies over the UK is great. And if ARC have to do a few deals to get it there, good on them.

Please move on now, there’s nothing else to see here.

Another flyable Mk IX? That’s the most common mark these days. If it was another mark oh well. But this is a historic Spit for the Dutch. Not all Spits should end up in the air or overseas you know. The majority of the visitors don’t even know what a Firefly is. Anyway, the deal is done, nothing can be done about it now so let’s see what happens in the near future.

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 7:13 pm in reply to: Restoring Aeroplanes – What happens to the bits not used? #1258378

HP57
Participant

Oh thats just mean

Cees it is true I have a skin panel from her here….

Peter,

Yeah I know. She doesn’t need it anymore. 😀

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 11:47 am in reply to: Duxford Firefly on the move ? #1258983

HP57
Participant

Well, I hope that the Firefly can be restored to a full Dutch MLD example. I also hope that H53 will remain its current livery whenever it takes to the air, but I am very afraid it will be repainted into a full RAF example. At least now we have a Firefly. I can remember another swap a decade ago when a Dutch Spitfire was swapped for 1 or 2 plastic examples. I wonder if H53 will be on the static the 13th at Duxford.

A Firefly? If you can call it like that? Any chance where they will find the bits and pieces missing? Will the substantial bits and pieces lying around the UK’s and Irelands hillsides be available (there are wings and fuselage sections still lying about).

Or how about the funds neede to restore her. There is a Norseman still under restoration that needs to be completed and the Fokker CV also needs to be refurbished. And what about the Buffalo bits. Best thing to do for the latter is to but them in a large crate and filling it up with earth with a sign:

“Buffalo wreck, about to be recovered, very exciting exhibit” 😮 :diablo:

For € 5,00 you can buy a spoon to dig it out. Nice for the kids. 😎

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 10:45 am in reply to: Restoring Aeroplanes – What happens to the bits not used? #1258996

HP57
Participant

In Holland we do that only to pedestrians 😀 😀

I asked the team at Trenton what they were doing with the leftovers from the rebuild of Halifax NA337. According to Deryck they were binned or given to interested visitors.
😮
Cheers

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 10:02 am in reply to: Duxford Firefly on the move ? #1259132

HP57
Participant

The only positive thing in this is that the Spitfire will be rebuild to flying condition.

Benno,

What’s the use, this is an authentic veteran that has been restored by Fokker apprentices. The mainspar is toast, so will have to be replaced. To make it flyable a lot of original material will be destroyed. I have no objections against frame five specials but this is a fully intact historic icon!

I would almost suggest to have all interesting Dutch aircraft now in the care of official museum to be taken to the UK to ensure their preservation.
Cees

August 10, 2006 at 9:26 am in reply to: Duxford Firefly on the move ? #1259174

HP57
Participant

The Aviodrome just mailed a pressrelease in which they mentioned that they have sold their Spitfire. Most probably that’s why the Firefly arrived in Holland yesterday.

Roger,

😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡

I heard about the Sptfire/Firefly deal. What’s the matter with the people responsible for this most ridiculous deal of the 21st Century!!!! Are they totally van de pot gerukt!!!!!!

First they bought a crate full of Buffalo scrap that hasn’t seen the light of day since it arrived, and now this!

What’s the use to swap a historic Dutch Spitfire that also served in Indonesia for a derelict Firefly, that is only fit for spare parts to restore the other one!!

😡 😡 😡 😡 😡
This is another black mark for the Dutch (official) Historic Aircraft Preservation scene. Seems like it’s a crime to have a historic weapon of war (Spitfire) on display. What’s wrong with having several aircraft of the same type on display at various locations around the country. Who cares what The Hague thinks about duplication of aircraft. They can’t even run the country so what do they know about preservation.
😡 😡 🙁 🙁

Nobody would have thought such a deal would happen and now it has. What’s next? They want to concentrate on a civilian them and now they are going to put the Fokker CV on display, a real veteran of May 1940. Will they sell this one too soon because it’s a weapon of war? In time only civilian types will be on show. Booooooooooring!!

If you think I am not pleased about this, they you are bl**dy right!!

Cees

August 10, 2006 at 9:03 am in reply to: Restoring Aeroplanes – What happens to the bits not used? #1259189

HP57
Participant

Guys guys,

You should be ashamed for teasing me like that 😀

But in Holland we always say: whoever laughs last laughs best!! 😉
I am known for not giving up easily so watch this space!!!!!!

Cees

August 9, 2006 at 11:44 am in reply to: Fairey Battle Project Downunder #1260298

HP57
Participant

Dave,

Vince O’Connor of Uxbridge Ontario Canada used to have some Battle parts in his yard among which was a complete wing.

Excellent choice, good luck with the project.

Cees

August 8, 2006 at 3:10 pm in reply to: Kenley dig postponed #1261320

HP57
Participant

According to Mark there was also a derelict Mk 22 Spitfire.
We will know soon I hope. Very very exciting.

Cees

August 8, 2006 at 1:59 pm in reply to: Kenley dig postponed #1261371

HP57
Participant

Was Kenley not the site where a Spitfire XVI was recovered from, now at Shoreham?

Cees

August 7, 2006 at 3:41 pm in reply to: Stirling props #1262554

HP57
Participant

These props are almost extinct. weren’t similar props used for Beaufighters as well?

Perhaps a new batch should be made (cost, I know) to help some projects.

Cees

August 7, 2006 at 3:39 pm in reply to: Nice piece for Cees…. #1262559

HP57
Participant

Glad to hear that it has found a good home.

Cees
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