A-29“DEMONSTRATION is not equal, nor even similar to TRAIN… Am I clear?”
You forgot the word Teach.
“Few, but efficient and disuasive. That’s the motto, don’t you agree?.”
Yes.
Regards,
A-29“Sure we’ll buy more AEW in the future. Maybe some Erieyes?
Besides…having in mind the size of your country, the FAB fleet should be 3 times bigger…Your fleet is small and ageing. But I guess its size is according to the actual necessities of the nation, in times of regional peace. However, I think in general you’re very capable and smart people. That means you can take the most from your old and small fleet too.”
Right now, is small, i agree with that, but, currently modernisations are under way, F-5 is getting upgrade, AMX also, A-29 is becoming operational, ERJ-145 are introducing to service replacing old Avros propoller aircraft, C-295 will coming to replace our buffalos, a squadron of Black hawks is replacing an old one with hueys and the new FX is about to be decided, and in near future 120 aircraft will be purchased. It is small indeed but according to our economic situation, but, effective.
“All the time A-29. You’re underestimating the “small fleet” all the time. But I really don’t care, because yuo have demonstrated right here on this forum your lack of knowledge about Chile, as a country, and its Air Force.
Read your messages right above this lines. “small fleet, just one AEW, small fleet, old new planes, blah, blah, blah…”
Saying that the fleet is small does not mean that i´m underestimating Chilean AF. Is a reality, it is small, everyone knows that, but, capable, i´m not making any question on that.
“I have read it once more, but you didn’t answer my question…again.”
According to an article (published in 2001) of an specialized magazine here in Brazil, named Força Aérea (Air Force), “….on the first two weeks of the month of December 1980, four FAB F-5Es and a KC-130H went to Chile to demonstrate and teach AAR procedures to Chilean AF officials”. The article is about the 25th anniversary, at that time, of the AAR in Brazil (the first one took place in 1976).
“Sorry pal…but that last paragraph was not aimed at you.
I was not talking to you, brazilians…
I was talking about a guy in this forum -which is not brazilian- that has no arguments to back up his nonsense and childish “ideas”, if I can call them like that…That’s pure envy.”
You have not mentioned that…………..no problem.
“But we don’t need more than that. We’re realistic people. We prefer to have few things, but good, modern, useful and operative… not tarmac dummies, not empty fast jets which scares no one.”
According to Aircraft illustrated issue from July 2004, Mirage Panteras will be repalced by the F-16 in 2006.
Also there is an article published on El Mercurio which says that”….Chilean officials stating that the offsets from the F-16 programme are thus far not all they were advertised to be.”
Another information got from AI
“Chile F-5s have been fitted with a new IAI Elta 2032 radar set, and the datalink modules in order to be able to fire the Rafael Derby active radar homing missile. Accordint o officials in Chile who know the results of the test firings of the Derby, there are still reliability issues with the missile.
“You are never sure of which aeroplane this missile is going to hit when you fire it””.
Regards,
A-29“…and from the next year, a fourth type will be added. The F-16 Block 50. 10-12 brand new machines, BVR capable, fitted with state of the art avionics.”
Good acquisition but i read on AI magazine that the F-16s will replace the Panteras.
“Fifteen. 85%-90% already upgraded to Tigre III Plus category (Derby, DASH, new colour MFDs, etc). The rest undertaking the same upgrade as we speak…”
It´s nice, but too small fleet.
“No idea. I think it’s classified…
Do you really know how many sorties your air force can generate?. I don’t think so…”
three to four a day and deployments throughout the country.
“Around 90%. And it’s a great number, indeed…”
i agree, but the fleet is too small.
“Condor AEW is full operative. You will see it if you go to northern Chile in Sept/Oct. (Salitre 2004)”
Unfortunately i cannot go there, maybe someday. It´s just one, as the fleet is too small, it will be necessary escorts as the aircraft is High Value Asset, two or even more aircrafts dedicated in escorting him generates less aircraft for other missions. I think it is good to acquire another AEW aircraft.
“And you don’t underestimate Chilean Air Force.
Not if you don’t have the slightiest idea of what’s going on in Chile (…not to mention the myths on the “European thing” that’s in your mind…that is)”
Please tell me when i said and where i wrote that i´m underestimating Chilean AF. Come on Condor
“(BTW…I’m still waiting for your input on which tankers and in flight refuelling capable aircraft Chile flew in the 70s…as you said earlier)”
Pls, read carefully what i wrote before
“Of course…there’s always jaleous people who feels envy when the neighbors are doing fine… It’s human nature.”
jealous…..?????????why? because Chilean AF is doing fine? grow up my friend.
Regards,
A-29“Hey brother…you better start praying for it can fly and don’t leak on the tarmac…
And start making money to buy it… Get something new and advanced!”
Chile AF has three type of fighters (i´m not considering the A-37), F-5 tiger III, Pantera and Elkans.
How many F-5s, thirteen?
How many Panteras, twelve?
How many Elkans, twenty-two?
From this total, 47, how many jets the AF can put in the air? 70%? 80%? 80% of serviceability is around 38 jets. You think is a good number?
How many sorties the AF can generate. Is the Condor working, i mean to provide AEW for the fighters for a long period of time?
Don´t underestimate Peruvian AF, even with funding problems, they can put more jets in the air than Chilean AF in its good days. And I´m talking about Mirage 2000 and Mig-29, respected worldwide backed up by Su-22 and Su-25.
A-29“yes brother, i agree, it would be nice to have Su-35’s but that’s just what i would like, nobody knows what’s on FAP’s command minds.
i did learn back in the 80’s that FAP wanted Su-27 but it seems they got forced to the M2k, but it was just a “hush-hush” kinda’ talking with a dude of mine and there’s nothing to back that up. just rumours…
see ya at Cruzex brother, where “the real” air forces will go this year.
Camaro.”
I agree, but, who knows. I remember that the purchase of the Mig-29s caught most of the people by surprise, is it true. If yes, maybe can happen again with the Flanker.
Regards
A-29“fach has nothing to challenge and “worst” defeat FAP “as it is now”
and as for the “super F-16” (still 1 1/2 years to be real), dont worry, FAP will have something “under the sleeve” “
I will be not surprised if FAP decides to acquire Flankers in near future. It will be great, don´t you think my friend Camaro? 🙂 😎
Regards,
A-29“It’s cooperation, indeed, but the simple fact that a couple of chilean pilots visits Brazil does not means they’re all travelling all the time to your contry to qualify any given type of aicraft. Quite simple.”
Cooperation is cooperation, doesn´t matter if is to get qualification or not. Maybe, if Brazilian government decides for the F-16, of course FAB pilots will go to Chile to get more info and learn more, there is no problem with that.
“Bah?…I didn’t know that in the 70’s FACh had any in flight refuelling capable aircraft and tankers to do the job!!… Great news!
Are you sure you did your homework?
(Please tell us which type of chilean aircraft was and which tankers Chile had that time…)”
FAB converted to the F-5 in the 70´s (1975-76) before Chilean AF and for several times FAB F-5 pilots went to Chile including train Chilean AF pilots in the procedures of AAR. In one time on FAB pilot died on a training mission with a Chilean pilot (the pilot was a command pilot at the time, i don´t remember if was a Major a Lt.Col. but his name was Fleury). Unfortunately, Chilean F-5s gor refuelling probe on the upgrade made on the 90´s, but, for sure kept working on AAR with FAB F-5 which is absolutely normal.
“But who talked about success or failure, pal? Why are you getting so nervous!? You should read better what I said and please don’t avoid the key issue here.
All I have tried to explain to you is the reason why Chile didn’t participate in Cruzex 2003. In fact, if FACh participated in Cruzex 2002 was exclusively because there was a compromise to do so. And Chile is well known in the whole world by acomplish its international compromises”
I´m not nervous, far away to be one….i´m just said that according to FAB officials, Cruzex 2002 was a huge success due to all participants, INCLUDING, Chile. I´m not saying bad things about your country, why you take the things so seriously….as i told in my last message, it will be great to have Chilean jets here again for the second Cruzex. I will tell you one thing, i don´t have nothing against Chile, for the contrary.
“Well…we’ll see this in a couple of months. Aside from mine and your opinion, Salitre 2004 will be a great exercise.”
I believe that and i´m not telling that will be better than Salitre or something (Cruzex 2004 will larger than the first one, which for us is exciting) and by the way….this will be the first large scale air exercise in Chile, is that true?
Can you tell me which aircrafts will be participating on the exercise? I heard here that FAB will send its AMXs based on Rio Grande do Sul state (much closer to Chile).
“Sounds fantastic. Take some pics to share with all of us.”
I´m planning to go there. The place is to far away from the city that i live (2 hours by plane up North). If i go there, for sure i will get pics and will be a pleasure to share with you and the other members.
“I’m afraid the decision is already made. But…who knows?”
As i told before, it will be nice to have them here.
“So..if you know and remember that A-29… then why are you inventing those rare stories about “being more european”? I really don’t understand.
I can’t imagine what kind of disputes could exist beteween two countries about being more european than the other… It’s ridiculous!
Doesn’t it sounds odd to you?
It’s so artificial!
Please, help us all and explain some facts about it. It would be great to hear the whole tale…”
i´m not inventing anything, i just heard that talking with people, as i mentioned before. But, if you got offensed with that, please accept my apologies.
“Ohh…and I guess you think that that means it’s true?
C’mon A-29…be more creative.”
It is not the fact in being more creative, and i´m not taking that it is true, i never told that, i just mentioned what i heard, and, you are telling me that it is not the general thoughts of the majority of the Chileans.This is good to hear.
“Yeah, but you’re a south american, not european A-29.
Well…90% chileans descends from spanish, german, croatian, italian and many other nationalities, but they don’t see themselves as being European by that fact.
I have heard many brazilians see themselves as europeans…althought they live in South America as well as chileans and argentinians…
Do you really feel european A-29?”
Not even in my dreams, i´d love to be Brazilian, proud to be South American and i love this country despite all of our problems, and i don´t have the intention to move from here (i think you have the same thoughts about Chile). In fact what you saying is not true. You heard that from who, from a Brazilian? If was, this person is having an identification crisis….needs treatment.
Regards,
A-29“I’m afraid you’re confusing/inventing some issues A-29.
FACh do have two F-5F trainers full operatives and that’s fairly enough to train their aircrews, so they don’t travel to Brazil due to a lack of planes, or to be trained on the F-5.
Not really. The cooperation between the two air arms has been in the field of BVR and ACI”
Recently two Chilean F-5 pilots came to Canoas AFB to qualify on the type. I believe that there are other kinds of cooperations but, today, Chilean AF pilots are still getting their qualification here. Not a problem with that, do you have? is just a cooperation.
“That’s not true. Please read the upper text.”
In the 70´s, a group of pilots from the Brazilian First fighter group, recently converted to the F-5, went to Chile to teach Chilean fighter pilots air to air refuelling. Not a problem also, did you agree. It is all about cooperation.
“Well…you should know who’s the OFFICIAL sponsor of Cruzex…
It’s Dassault…the French company…
and Dassault (Mirage 2000-5) was discarded by FACh when they chose the LM F-16.”
Well, i think you need to come back to planet earth in this matter. Cruzex 2002 was a huge success for all nations involved, including Chile, and will be better this year with the participations of Peru and Venezuela (MIg29, Mirage 2000 and F-16 respectively)
“On the other hand, I think the main exercise of this year will be Salitre 2004, that will take place very soon in northern Chile, with Argentina, Brazil, Chile and the United States in September/October. The three main Latinamerican air forces -and the ones with the best levels of professionalism and preparation- will be there, as you can see.”
I respect your opinion but i don´t agree with. France are sending the dash-5 (doesn´t matter if its related to the bidding, Dassault knows that the battle was almost lost) which is by far more capable than the F-16s that the US will send (always F-16s from either AFRC or ANG). Lucky if the South Carolina ANG will send their jets (F-16s Block 50/52), but, i don´t believe.
Aside from that, there will be here Mirage 2000s and Mig-29s from Peru (really excited) and the F-16s from Venezuela, they have 20 years experience on the jet, participations on Red Flag (twice), they are very capable. It is coming to the Argentinians with their Mirages or Skyhawks (A-4AR). And to finalize, Mirages, F-5, AMX and A-4 from Brazil. Hope the Chilean AF will decide to come up and participate again, this time with the F-5s, Elkans as well as the Pantera.
“Opps…that sounds tremendously “light” and rather childish…but having in mind you are brazilian and not chilean or argentinian citizen, I understand your lack of knowledge in that subject.”
Well, this was the impression that we have and i had. And this was told to me by citizens from both nations. But, i have to tell you that i knew one buddy from this forum, he is Chilean and his nickname is Wolf and he is a very nice person.
“Chileans are not interested in being “more European than argentinians or brazilians”, just by the simple fact that chileans are happy to be latin people, just like all their neighbors. Who cares about Europe?”
Please see my answer above.
“The long disputes between argentina and Chile are related to boundaries matters, and that’s because both countries almost go to war in 1978. Argentina denied the international arbitral results that favoured Chile. The dispute was three southern islands in the southern tip of the Beagle channel. (I can email you more info if you want to learn…)”
I know that and if you remember, we have discussed this issue on the thread related to the Chilean F-16.
“To say that chileans want to be more european is like to say that brazilians want to be more portuguese…”
I tell you that 80% or more of the Brazilian population decends directly from Portugal, my family came from Portugal. As you can see, we have a very close relation with Portugal, we have been colonized by Portugal, the Brazilian Royal family (yes, we have one) descends directly from the royal family of Portugal which by the way have a family relationship with the royal families throughout Europe, but, we didn´t feel like europeans or whatever. We are a huge country with a tremendous and very, very interesting mixture of Africans, Americans, Germans, Portuguese, Italians, Japanese, Ukrainians, Finnish, British, Dutch, Jews, Muslims………to say at least, all together living in peace and happy. If you want to know more about that, just let me know.
“It’s nonsense…if you know what I mean…”
Giving the Portuguese example was not a good one, try other.
Regards
A-29Flex297, there are no enemies on the region. The fact, in the past, there were wars between Chile and Peru, but really long ago (19th century)
Brazil recently helped Peru, with success in find out kidnnaped troops (Brazilian AF used the surveillance version of the EMB-145, called R-99)
On a regular basis Chilean AF F-5 pilots came to Brazil to qualify on the type, as Chile AF don´t have too much two seats available. Also, Brazilian AF teach Chilean AF in the past in how to Air refuel.
Also, there is a cooperation between Brazilian armed Forces and Colombian Armed forces on the amazon to battle the FARC rebels.
Every year, Brazil pratice joint exercises with Venezuelan AF as well with Argentina. Argentinian navy pilots get their qualification on the Brazilian carrier São Paulo.
This year, in Brazil, will be organised the largest air exercise in latin America, Cruzex, with the participation of Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Peru, Uruguay and France. Chile declined due to other operational commitments (official version).
The tensions are locally, but, not serious except for the weird and totally without sense combats between Peru and ecuador back in 1995.
Chile and Argentina have a long dispute in who is the most “european” country in South America, you know what i mean?
Regards
A-29“budget?, the government just announced “officially” that the armed forces have been granted an increase and they’re authorized to spend the rest of the annual budget NOW and will receive some more, this made news last week.
so more airplanes just make more targets for the Migs and M2k’s.”
Camaro, good to know that Peruvian AF are increasing its capabilities. So….i´m looking forward to see Mig-29s and/or Mirage 2000s here in Brazil for Cruzex 🙂 🙂 😎
A-29As far as I know, the fleet of M2000, Su-22, Su-25 and Mig-29s are operational, but, i on´t know the serviceability rate. The Mirage V are in storage and the government put them on sale (10 at least, a good source for Pakistan)
They upgraded the fleet of Su-22 with Israeli kits and also are integrating PGM on its M2000. Some souces say that the mig-29 are being upgraded but i don´t know the status. Maybe Camaro or Sapito could give us more details on that.
Regards
A-29In RAF, reserve squadrons have more aircrafts in order to train the pilots in their respective airplanes. For example:
Jaguar pilots trains on 16 (R) sqn;
Tornado F.3 on 56 sqn
Tornado GR4 on 15 sqn
Harrier GR7 on 20 sqn
The reserve squadron, in case of war, will change status as an operational squadron.
Also the reserve squadrons provides pilots and aircrafts for the display season. And one thing that is interesting, the majority of the display pilots on their specific aircrafts goes to the Red Arrows.
Regards
A-29It is not because i am a Brazilian citizen, but, i vote for Brazil first then Argentina and Chile/Venezuela in third place.
Brazil has the largest AF in the region and even with 60% of serviceability of its aircrafts, still have more than other countries fleets.
Argentina has a very respectable fleet of Mirages, Super Etendards and Skyhawks.
The Jaguars from Ecuador were retired in 2002 and due to budget cuts, they are in storage at Taura AB. The total of 12 delivered, left only 8 and in good condition as they have not flown too much.
A-29I was really surprised when i saw the Brazilian C-130H on the picture, nice 🙂
The B-1B is just awesome a beautiful bird.
A-29“Brazilian indigenous(?) SCP-01 Scipio radar”
This radar is a local devolpment and works really fine, but, actually FAB AMXs needs upgrades and the radar choosed for will integrate more modern weapons such as PGM for ex.
In near future, Brazil will have its own developing weapons. Right now, we are integrating the A2A missile called Piranha. Also, there are a lot of types of bombs, build locally, already in use in service as well as some other developments. This actions will save a lot of money. Instead of buying weapons abroad, the money saved can be invested in other projects.
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