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PLA-MKII

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Viewing 15 posts - 871 through 885 (of 1,462 total)
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  • in reply to: Tornadoes Over Pakistan?? #2458774
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I think its possible. Maybe they already have sold them.. who knows? Maybe an alternative PAF strategy would be built around JF-17s, J-10s and Tornadoes.

    Never underestimate Saudi Arabia. They always have a bargaining chip. They don’t need oil anymore given the amount of money and investments they already have. The West needs Saudi Arabia more than ever as they are keeping the prices low by not cutting quantity too much. Imagine what would happen if they decided to increase the price – this recession will get really ugly.

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458780
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    It is wise of you not to include pilot factor because PAF pilots are better trained may simply be an assumption. Recently, IAF has been actively involved in joint excercises with several good airforces. I beleive IAF pilots have learnt a great deal from these excercises. Even if they are not as much trained, being able to see their enemy first and get them engage in BVR comat give them an upper hand right away.

    Own turf and familarity with the terrain will also give only a marginal advantage to PAF. We are in the era of information technology and even you and me play with google earth dont we. Imagine what kind of terrain information a professional force will have. I assume both sides have every single detail of terrain and assets in 3D fed into their computers.

    I dont think Pakistan has good SAM systems to augument its Airforce. Whatever Pakistan has is limited to short to medium (if we really skew) range. Which may protect to some extent from low flying Jaguars or MiG-23/27 in Air/Ground role but definitely cant stop air superiority fighters.

    I think they still have some way to go – if you recall comments by USAF on how the IAF pilots handled themselves. They had the opinion that they would eventually get there but that currently they were not up there yet.

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458789
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    So you are not taking tactics and pilot skill into consideration, or are you assuming each side has pilots of equal skill?

    I think that its subjective and I am trying to make it more concrete. The PAF has better trained pilots and a higher pilot ratio, but I have not incorporated this.

    I have also not incorporated the factor that PAF is going to be fighting on its own turf, with far more radars, familiar territory, and support of SAMs. Again, its hard to quantify this for me. So, I can leave these two general areas as exogenous to the model. What do you think?

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458793
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Here is what I am thinking: to quantify military power we look at three main elements – number of aircraft, how valuable each aircraft is in battle and how serviceable each aircraft is. We have the number of aircraft as a given. We assign percentages for serviceability, and assign a value between 0 and 1 for how effective each aircraft is. Now, they do not have to be absolutely accurate, but relatively accurate to make sense. We find the aggregate combat value by multiplying these values and aggregating.

    Spreadsheet.

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458853
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I did write a long thought piece about this in a long gone thread but it is far more complicated then you see it, no offence meant. We need to look at the tactical situation of both air forces before we draw a clear conclusion.

    It is correct to point out that at this moment the IAF has a general advantage over the PAF at this point but that wasn’t always the case. Historically the PAF has always been the most effective wing of the Pakistani armed forces with a general technical advantage in equipment through to the 1980’s over the IAF. It wasn’t negligent of the PAF in not having a BVR capability up to the 1980’s they didn’t really need one as their main rival the IAF was also a WVR force. The PAF was mainly a defensive force and the IAF had to come to them to engage them in combat. Unfortunately their main supplier of advanced weapon systems America took away their support and India upgraded to a BVR capability by the 1990’s. China was in no position at the time to provide a suitable BVR missile system.

    There was nothing that Pakistan could do about this situation in the short term; this is the main reason for the pushing of the JF-17 program. In the late 90’s it was the only project on the table that might give the PAF a BVR capability. Of course the situation has changed now and AMRAAM is on the table along with an AEW capability. Whilst the PAF is waiting for these new capabilities their main combat tactic at the moment is to avoid any BVR missile volley and get to the merge.

    Certainly within the PAF high command I would expect a certain degree of realism, they know they are not a match for the IAF at the moment they just don’t have the capability to truly penetrate Indian air space to any degree. The main roll of the PAF is to defend their air space and act as a deterrent. There plans would be to cause enough damage to give the Indian government pause for thought or even allow time for deployment of nuclear weapons.

    For the IAF we often see in the context of the rivalry with Pakistan but they have other problems strategically. Namely China that has an ever growing regional presence with a virtually bottomless defence budget, Indian defence procurement has to be in the context of balancing China’s power in the region. In relation to Pakistan both countries operate under the concept of MAD with both sides capable of some kind of nuclear response.

    Well these are my thoughts on the matter.

    Would love to see that piece you are talking about. Do post it. Also:

    1. What do you think of my model?
    2. What do you think of the mechanics behind a quantitative analysis of air combat?

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458881
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Logical assumption based on what? please elaborate.

    I think its the paint on the bisons perhaps? I have no idea, sounds a bit fishy to me as old planes like that tend to provide a lot of exposed and highly reflective metal. Just the matter of finishing raises RCS, and we can all see the finishing on these Russian MiG-21s..

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2458992
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Emotions aside, PAF in current state stands no chance against IAF. Infact IAF can engage PAF while staying in their own territory; thanks to their foresightedness of acquiring BVR. They dont even have to bring MKI or MiG29 into action, Bison fleet will be sufficient to finish off most of the PAF’s flying relics. PAF will pay for its neglegence of not acquiring any kind of BVR system. Even BVR capable J-8 would be better than WVR capable F-16s. But PAF’s top brass’s unrealistic passion for western technology has brought PAF to a point of simple impotancy. PAF will eventually reap what it has sown.

    Well, some believe PAF does have BVR.. Also, some don’t give BVR at max ranges that much credibility. However, there is no question that right now, this minute, the IAF is more capable of hurt than the PAF. My analysis illustrates this as well – a massive 21% gap in capability.

    in reply to: The end of the LCA??? #2459043
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    tut tut.. lets not hate people.. where is the love? :p

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2459048
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    And since we are talking about the present. Are the F 16s upgraded ? if so how many ? Block 15 F 16s are not eligible for the .9 mark you gave them and neither are the JF 17. Especially given that the MKI is given .99

    The JF-17s are brand new with the latest EW and avionics and a brand new BVR. Look, I gave the FLANKERs almost a flawless score.. I think thats about fair.. this is a product formula, so small differences have a big impact.

    in reply to: PAF vs IAF – Analysis of Capability #2459071
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I think by now all of Pakistan’s Mirages are upgraded. I think valuing the Bison as equal to the F-7 PG is about fair. : ) but thanks, will contemplate on your opinion for a while and see if I think differently. 🙂

    in reply to: Tornadoes Over Pakistan?? #2459087
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Could it have been these?

    (thanks Jawad)

    http://www.idaerospace.com/images/tornado.png

    http://www.idaerospace.com/pdf/TORNADO.pdf

    Apparently they are inflatable decoys that are the same size and shape :p

    in reply to: Tornadoes Over Pakistan?? #2459282
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Well! I think the fact that Saudi ADVs are grey breaks this theory up. Surely, you would want ADVs and not strike aircraft. What could these planes have been? A large UAF? I mean that doesn’t sound plausible. J-8s? Not likely. JH-7s?

    or maybe its the most likely suspect – A-5s but then they would be easy to identify as any Pakistani knows what an A-5 looks like. Grrrrrrrrrrr…….. We need Sherlock Holmes for this.

    in reply to: Tornadoes Over Pakistan?? #2460454
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    Also, where the Saudi Skyflash ever upgraded?

    in reply to: The end of the LCA??? #2469032
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    I that the next evolution of the LCA will have stealth features and delta canards and TVC.. etc. And of course, latest avionics. This will make it much better and in line with 5th generation fighters. Thus, India does need this program. I think as far as evolution versus revolution goes, yes, China and Pakistan can follow that line, but for India, it should aim higher, for a true revolution 🙂

    in reply to: F-35D #2469555
    PLA-MKII
    Participant

    The fanboys here will tell you that it already is.

    I would respectfully disagree. The nose is too small to carry a radar big enough for true air dominance work and the rear view out of the cockpit is atrocious.

    I think you can always add a rear view mirror. Or better, a rear view camera 😀

    About the subject at hand, I’d like to see the large wings, optimized engines, repackaged avionics, and ability to carry more AMRAAMs. anything more and you’d be stretching the budget too far (?)

Viewing 15 posts - 871 through 885 (of 1,462 total)