F-22 can supercruise at a variety of altitudes with internal load

Rafale can only supercruise at high elevation at either clean state or two AAM. It was not designed to supercruise but only brought up because the Typhoon had legitimate claims. Dassault had to market the Rafale as a supercruiser.

Su-35 has no proven supercruising ability despite what the Russians try to hype about it. they are trying to market it to get investments.

J-20 has not proven supercruising yet but is probably the most likely candidate to supercruise along side F-22 and Typhoon capabilities.

Lockheed has built carrier aircraft. :rolleyes:

I like the examples of pre-F35C Lockheed built carrier aircraft you listed 🙂

When’s the last time a USN aircraft blew apart the first time it tried to land on a carrier?

When’s the last time Lockheed Martin built a fighter aircraft that could land on carriers?

NH-90 should not be even considered at all. Germans don’t like it, and not many others do either except the French.

they should stick to AW101

Er – what Chinese lands is S. Korea occupying?

I know about the piddling little islands in the far south of Japan China claims are Chinese.

as you can see parts of the northern Korea belong to China historically.
Actually entire Korean peninsula is Chinese before Japan took it and brainwash the Koreans to have an independent identity.

From Janes , A little old but interesting

Russia’s Amur diesel electrics will follow Kilo class in hunt for exports
Joris Janssen Lok

The latest non-nuclear submarine produced by the Russian naval shipbuilding industry is the leading boat Sources of the new ‘Amur’ 1650/Lada class of diesel-electric submarines. The 2,650t (submerged) vessel, St Petersburg, is expected to be launched by June next year in St Petersburg. An official-style inauguration ceremony featuring the new submarine, to be commissioned into the Russian Navy possibly on a lease basis, will likely take place on the occasion of the planned Naval and Maritime Exhibition there at the end of June 2003. This is to be held to honor the Baltic city’s 300th anniversary.

St Petersburg, designated a Project 677 Lada-class submarine by the Russian Navy, is being followed by a similar boat that is destined for a future export customer. This unit, referred to as ‘Amur 1650’, is now approximately 20% complete. A decision reportedly has to be taken whether it will be completed using company funding or whether construction will be slowed down until an actual customer has been identified. So far, funding for it has been provided by a financial-industrial consortium known as Morskaya Tekhuika (Maritime Technology).

China and India are the leading sales prospects for ‘Amur’-class submarines Work on the two boats, at the Admiralty Shipyard in St Petersburg, started in December 1997 following a protracted period of design and tooling up. Designed by the local Rubin Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering (CDBME), the basically similar ‘Amur
1650′ and Project 677 Lada class represent a fourth-generation of Russian conventional submarines. The design is seen as a successor to the third-generation Project 877EKM and Project 636 ‘Kilo’-class boats built for the Russian Navy and various export customers

‘Amur’ vs ‘Kilo’

The ‘Amur’ offers a family of six different designs ranging from 550-2,000t surface displacement. Compared to the ‘Kilo’, the ‘Amur’ is said to have reduced its noise signature to 10% of the former’s. This would have been achieved by stringent control of
acoustic emission from equipment, double elastic mounting of all equipment and the use of anechoic cladding on the outer hull.

The single hull design is divided into five watertight compartments: torpedo, missile storage and batteries; control room complex;accommodation, storage and batteries; diesel generator; and electric motor.

The payload of 18 weapons can include the latest types of Russian torpedo, anti-submarine rocket torpedo, cruise missile (‘Club’) and mines. Torpedoes can be fired both singly and in salvoes of up to six weapons. An automatic weapons loading system
permits prompt reloading of torpedo tubes for subsequent firing within less than 20s. Sensors include passive transducer arrays that should be more effective (than those in ‘Kilo’-class boats) as a result of the ‘Amur’s’ low noise signature. In addition to hull-
mounted sonars, the boat can deploy a towed array that is streamed through the sail as well as intercept,obstacle avoidance, underwater telephones, noise monitoring sensors and velocity and range measurement systems which combine to make up the Russian-developed Lira sonar suite.

In the earlier ‘Kilo’ class, too, combat systems and sensors electronic equipment is all of Russian manufacture, with the sonar suite comprising the hull-mounted, low-/medium-frequency passive search and attack ‘Shark Teeth’ (MGK-400EM); and the hull-
mounted, high-frequency active search/attack sonar ‘Mouse Roar’. The ‘Shark Teeth’, although primarily a passive search and attack sonar, also has some active capability. The Indian ‘Kilo’-class boats are additionally fitted with the low-/medium-frequency, passive search Whale series.

The bow sonar features a surface array of 6.4m2 enabling it to detect a submarine target at 11nm, a surface vessel at 43nm and a task force at over 100nm, depending on environmental conditions and the generated noise of the targets. The electronic
warfare suite consists of either the ‘Brick Group’, ‘Stop Light’ or ‘Squid Head’ radar warning system and ‘Quad Loop’ direction finding intercept system. For navigation
the ships are fitted with the I-band ‘Snoop Tray’ radar.

The ‘Amur’-class boats are expected to see ‘Quad Loop’, ‘Brick Group’ and ‘Squid Head’ ESM, ‘Snoop Tray’ radar, non-hull penetrating electro-optic search sensor and hull-penetrating attack periscope fitted. The commander’s periscope features, in addition to the normal viewing system, a night vision facility and a laser range-finder.

The latest periscope design is known as the Classical and is from the Lomo company of Russia. The full system is fitted out to allow for surface observation,day/night target acquisition and classification, range and bearing measurement, celestial sight taking,
satellite navigation, preliminary acquisition of radio signals and video recording.

For observation there is an optical visual channel, a TV day and low-light channel and a thermal imaging channel. The 2,000kg Classical system features a maximum traversing rate of 20o/s, a 1.54μm (eyesafe) or 1.06μm (optional) laser range-finder, a measurement range between 60-18,500m with an accuracy of 5-10m.

An older type is the PZKG search/ attack periscope,which entered service in September 1982 and has since been exported. Some 90 PZKG sets (capable of up to 6x magnification) equip ‘Kilo’-class boats (two in each submarine) in Algeria, China, India, Iran, Poland,Romania and Russia.

Propulsion set-up

Propulsion for the latest ‘Kilo’-class boats was provided by two 4-2AA-42M diesels developing 2.68MW, powering two generators and carried on a suspended platform for acoustic stealth. The single shaft is driven by a single electric motor developing 4.34MW and powering a slow-turning (250rpm in the Project 636) seven-bladed propeller. In addition, two small MT-168 auxiliary motors developing 150kW are fitted and a low-
powered electric motor of 95kW for economic running and slow speed operations (6kt) in ultra-quiet mode.

Two 120-cell storage batteries are accommodated in the first and third compartments. Battery capacity is 9,700kWh.In the ‘Amur’, propulsion arrangements are expected to
be of a comparable set-up, albeit that there will likely be newer diesels, electromotor, generators and batteries involved – with more flexibility for export customers to insert non-Russian equipment when appropriate.

However, provision has been made in the design to fit a 12m plug-in section with fuel cell AIP system, should a customer require this.Machinery control and submarine attitude, together with damage control and general boat system management, is controlled either from a central console in the main control room or other control stations around the boat. Submarine attitude is controlled by sail-mounted hydroplanes and cruciform stern control surfaces.

The design features fin-mounted hydroplanes and cruciform control surfaces aft. The hull is constructed of AB-2 steel, which allows the boat a maximum published operational diving depth of 250m, although real diving limits are likely to be at least 100m deeper.

The design is fully tropicalized for operation in any part of the world.

Reduced manpower

Increased automation has allowed a significant reduction in manning compared to the ‘Kilo’. Reportedly, the ‘Amur’ can be run by just 34 personnel operating on a two-shift watch or 41 working on a three-shift watch.

The main control room accommodates all combat management and platform control functions, which interface through a common databus. Starting with the ‘Kilo’ class, capability has already been improved with (partly or wholly) digital automated combat information systems (MVU-110/Uzel and later the MVU-119/Murena) that can track multiple targets simultaneously and provide concurrent fire-control data on some of them while carrying out target motion analysis on others.

The dual-workstation combat information segment also interfaces to weapon and countermeasures discharge management units on a separate weapons control bus.
The first-of-class St Petersburg is apparently intended for use as a shop window for export customers and is to be armed with 16 missiles and torpedoes.

According to the US Office of Naval Intelligence, the ‘Lada’ is expected to deploy the improved SET-80 UGST dual-purpose torpedo, SS-N-15 ‘Starfish’ anti-submarine
rocket torpedoes, the Novator Alfa (SS-N-27) anti-ship cruise missile, and the PM-1 and RM-2G mines.

Potential customers

‘Amur’ marketing is initially concentrating on the existing ‘Kilo’ customer base, with India and China both seen as major prospects. The baseline configuration for Asian countries is likely to be a 1,700-tonne design with a 1:7 beam-to-length ratio, giving 45 days’
autonomy with a crew complement of 30-32. Maximum underwater speed is 21kt.

At one stage it had been planned to fit the first Project 677 (St Petersburg) with a fuel-cell air-independent propulsion (AIP) plant. This plan has been shelved, and Rubin has admitted skepticism about any near-term requirements for AIP. Even so, Rubin (working over time with such parties as the Krylov Shipbuilding Research Institute and the Special Boiler Design Bureau [SKBK]) is continuing to pursue development of a fuel cell section (based on the Kristall-27E fuel cell plant) suitable for both new-build ‘Amur’ boats and
‘Kilo’-class retrofits.

Unless otherwise specified by the customer, ‘Amur’ will have a new Russian-designed integrated combat system, based on distributed processors connected by databus. A shore test facility is expected to be constructed with the help of the Russian Navy.
‘Kilo’-class missile capabilities vary from country to country, but in some cases the type is being fitted with considerable offensive striking power. India, for example, has been upgrading its ‘Kilo’-class boats in Russia, integrating the capability to fire Novator’s Alfa
(‘Club’) submarine-launched cruise missiles in at least four of its boats since the late 1990s. These units would include Sindhuraj (S 57), Sindhuvir (S 58), Sindhuratna (S 59) and Sindhushastra (S 65).

The ‘Club’ would have a range of 180km and have a 450kg warhead. Furthermore, efforts are under way to introduce a submarine-launched version of the PJ-10 BrahMos
strike missile, developed by a joint venture between the Indian DRDO and the Russian company NPO Mashinostroenia based on the Russian SS-NX-26 Oniks 3M55 system, for use as an anti-ship or land attack cruise missile. PJ-10 will be capable of launch from canisters fitted on to the sides of submarines.

China has been reported to have developed a submarine-launched strike missile capability for its ‘Kilo’-class boats, based on the Exocet-like C-801 anti-ship missile.The Russian Federation is believed to have a new missile development, intended to provide submarines with an improved defense against ASW helicopters and aircraft. The new missile will probably be fired from the sail, while the boat is submerged, using the lock-on-
after-launch (LOAL) mode based on data gathered from a periscope TV camera or from a towed sensor.

Previously, ‘Kilo’-class submarines routinely carried shoulder- or pedestal-launched heatseeking short-range surface-to-air missiles, but these could only be fired when the boat was on the surface.

lol, why do western reporters always like to mention China as a potential customer. Lets be honest. Most kinds of ship China needs, they can build themself. Why need Amur when China has Type 41? The only thing China is missing is an aircraft carrier, but that will be the last thing it need from Russia for its navy.

“Personally, I think the Philippines have the best claim…….”

They have the best claim but the worst navy. No reason to claim anything if you can’t back it up. The Philippines should be begging for Perry class frigates and anything else they can get to replace their obsolete fleet of WWII era ships. The only thing worse than the Philippines navy has to be their air force. If the Philippines want any part of the disputed Spratly islands then they have a lot of upgrading to do to their armed forces.

how can Filipine fight China over the island when they cant even beat Muslim guerillas in their own jungle.