The BumpLovely photos as ever DCW, glad the weather was kind to allow the Sea Fury home, any longer and she’d may as well have hung on for FL 2016 !
The BumpAs I have said before ,an individual does not have to be involved in the industry to have an opinion on airshow/flying matters.
I have attended airshows for 40 plus years as have others and some on this forum far longer.
In that time I can safely say I know the difference between a well flown routine and one that is about to go wrong.
Every time I had that ‘lurch’ in my chest whilst watching a routine something went wrong or very nearly did.
Similarly in any sport there are spectators that haven’t necessarily even participated in that sport but from their continued interest they build up a knowledge of the game/race/match.
Out of all the forums this one has stayed sensible and allowed differing opinions.
Ironically my personal gripe this season has nothing to do with any post Shoreham rule changes but instead Duxfords advance ticket system.
When I last checked the participants list,there was no mention of a Mosquito-esque star item to warrant the organisers panicking about record crowds .
I think that this will fuel ‘free loadery ‘ at a time when that is the main topic of conversation with the new regs.
One of the best airshow experiences I had was in October 2014 when I was unexpectedly able to attend the Shuttleworth Autumn show at the last minute.
I motored up to the DH Museum and spent a lovely couple of hours there before heading up the A1 to OW and parked no problem and enjoyed a great show.
I accepted the RIAT argument years back for advance tickets but find the Duxford argument weak particularly without a crowd puller in attendance.
Last September I had to buy a two day ticket to give me my weather fall back option.
I wonder how many families will decide it’s not worth the risk in case one of the children is poorly on the day and there goes their family ticket price down the drain.
How many people without a ticket will decide to freeload and how do the organisers expect an already overworked police force to move outsiders on?
The BumpYour naivety in expecting such a list to be posted on a public forum is nothing short of astonishing.
And your arrogance is continually a source of astonishment.
The PM system has always provided a usual tool for info best kept off of a forum, I cannot see where I asked for a list to be made public?
I do however like it if people back up their arguments.
Taking Legends and the RIAT BoB tribute example from last year, I see no example there of pilots getting a warbird slot based solely on their financial muscle………..past experience / skill and being in the right place at the right time ? Yes it helps.
Re Vintage jets, when properly flown and maintained and operated sympathetically they are fine.
It is however , the vintage jet scene where regulators have taken their eye off the ball somewhat.
There appears to be a ‘Barcelona v Accrington Stanley’ style difference in piloting ability apparent in that sector.
The BumpWhat makes you think that vintage jets will not display at Airshows any more? If they have been looked after properly and operated properly, you will see them. If they haven’t, you will not. Martin Baker is going to be the show stopper. Why do people post crap comments? Nice photo BTW.
I couldn’t agree more, your words ‘operated properly being the key words here !
The BumpI’m confused. I’m sure that I read here only a few days ago that you were claiming that no UK Warbird pilots were there purely due to the size of their wallets. Now you seem to be saying precisely the opposite.
And equally I’m still waiting to see this list of pilots who are in the cockpit , and regularly displaying at shows, because their bank balance exceeds their piloting skills.
My comment was in response to a fellow poster who claimed that the ‘crappiest’ pilot could get into warbirds purely on the size of his bank balance, maybe he could for a bimble but not to display.
I have yet to go to an airshow where this is the case, I am talking about the UK and piston engined WWII aircraft pilots at airshows not some wannabe Top Gun in a Yak 52 on a weekend local area jolly.
And I stand by my other post in which I say that vintage jets are safe IN THE RIGHT HANDS.
Jeez, can’t make things any clearer than that.
Re the DA system, I am hoping the CAA implement a system where a ‘red card’ during a display is thoroughly investigated and not just seemingly swept under the carpet.
For example,was there a reason a pilot infringed a display line? In cockpit distraction, aircraft malfunction? Or a case of poor piloting.
The BumpSorry but that doesn’t just apply to jets. There have been plenty of fatal piston engined aircraft crashes at air shows caused by pilot error!
Rob
I wasn’t suggesting it applied to just jets, but I was saying that the vintage jet is being unfairly portrayed in the wake of last years incidents.
The BumpVintage jets can be operated quite safely and in an entertaining manner when the likes of Jonathan Whaley, Dan Griffith and Brian Grant are at the controls,sadly not all vintage jet pilots are up to their standard.
The above are just a few examples, there are many more highly competent individuals.
The CAA are seeking to weed out the less talented.
The BumpI didn’t really know what to make of that video…………..
The BumpTony T- When I first heard the news item on the radio, albeit a snippet, I thought it was the final report and was therefore shocked to hear the FDD mentioned in the first sentence and therefore to blame in the whole disaster.
After a quick trip online I realised it was another update.
Like you say, he is a very experienced and respected figure in the business and was a great display pilot.
I feel very sorry for the guy because he would expect display pilots to act responsibly and in line with the limits of their DA and experience.
He must feel really let down in all this.
The BumpI visited last month before the opening and it is indeed a great facility with some interesting projects underway.
The BumpGlad to see 615 at Kenley are staying.
The BumpI would assume that the CAA had sight of this Interim Bulletin before its public release. That goes a long way to explaining Andrew Haines’ comments to The Times last week.
This is for certain given the recent proposed clampdown on the DAE’s , DA holders and FDD’s .
Don’t think the final report is going to hold any surprises then……….
The BumpThe BBMF will fly with civilian warbird pilots, plenty of examples to list from last year with the BoB 75th , they are just very selective who they fly with.
Still struggling to think of a ‘crap’ UK based warbird pilot in that community because of his money……..
The BumpMore
http://www.aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blog/4100/Dogfight-over-UK-airshows-uintensifies
You say about lack of experience on fast jets, one could say the same is also relevant to piston fighters, unlike their civilian counterparts that may have hundreds of hours on Piston aircraft qualifying for their ATPLs before flying warbirds, the BBMF pilots will probably have 60 hrs on the Tutor possibly years before prior to joining, the rest will be Tuccano and jets. A different kettle of fish in comparison.
It really annoys me when you have civilian “Spitfire pilots” and everyone says how great she or he is… They can be the crapiest pilots out there but because they fly a Spitfire etc everyone assumes they are good when in fact the only common denominator is simply the size of their wallet.
Don’t forget the BBMF guys will have intensive training on the Chipmunk once accepted for the flight then will step up to the Harvard, all being well the Hurricane awaits then after a suitable period, the ‘baby’ Spitfires.
Out of season ,the BBMF pilots will keep current on the Chipmunk including practicing PFL’s at speeds more akin to the Spits and Hurricanes.
Additionally the BBMF Chipmunk is flown from the rear seat to acclimatise the pilots to the poor view that awaits them on the warbirds and they will also learn to hold the stick right back whilst on the ground in the Chipmunk (even though not necessary in the Chippie) to get in the right habits for the bigger warbirds that may nose over .
It should be remembered that whilst the prospective BBMF pilot is starting out with little or no piston or tail wheel experience they are exceptionally talented aviators often ex Reds and used to the RAF building block approach to training.
As for the ‘crappiest’ civvy pilot in a warbird, I can’t think of anyone offhand who has written off a warbird because the total in their wallet exceeded the total of their talent.
We are fortunate to have the most consistent collection of warbird pilots anywhere , whether that same consistency has been evident in the ex mil jet flying fraternity is open to debate.
The BumpI have been wondering whether to “bucket list” it, for old times sake. I attended every show there from 1949 to 1962 when it went biennial and then a fair few between 1962 and about 1980. But not since. It holds many marvellous memories but from what you say it sounds as though I might be rather disappointed. It will be a trek to get there and back!!
Don’t let me put you off Charlie but if you have a trek there and back it may disappoint.
A quick point on tightening up the DA’s ,this can only be a good thing.
Just because you were in the services 20 years ago doesn’t mean you can get away with displaying a demanding aircraft with relatively few hours on type today.
Contrast this with the RAF demo pilots who have to be very experienced on type and often instructors.
During the season they will maintain currency with ISP’s whether they fly King Airs,Hawks or Tiffies.
In addition to this they will be closely monitored throughout the work up and the season itself.
They would have been carefully selected from the pilots on the squadron for not only their flying ability but their temperament.
It’s no coincidence the CAA have tightened up the DA system after last year.
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