Actually, Tejas also has the record of having one of the highest wing-body blends in the world.
Really? Highest, in what way? The lower fuselage doesn’t blend with the wing at all.
It is the only fighter to have a blended vertical-fin with the fuselage.
It’s not blended. The vertical fin is placed on top of the spine. The F-8 Crusader and F-5A Freedom Fighter for example had their vertical fins blended with the spine. The F-9 Panther had its fin blended with the fuselage though.
Tejas also has an unstable design
From what I’ve read it has relaxed stability. It doesn’t have the same level of instability as say the Gripen.
From this* comparison of schematics, it may be seen that the Tejas has relatively fewer joints and contours as compared to the “cluttered” schematic of the Gripen. This shows the high blending involved in the Tejas vis-a-vis an acclaimed combat jet.
The Gripen three view is more detailed, that’s all. It should not serve as a detail comparison, just as an outline comparison of the fighters.
As mentioned earlier, but noteworthy to be repeated, Tejas’ wings are at a far more acuter angle than Gripen, making the former more streamlined. Further that the external load of the Tejas is almost the same as Gripen, all these and previously mentioned facts may be sufficient to atleast suggest that the Tejas overall is a superior design to the Gripen.
*courtesy, robban.
There is nothing in the LCA design that would suggest it being superior to the Gripen. The Gripen obviously has a more slender fuselage, if it offers lower drag compared to the fuselage of the Tejas, I don’t know. However, the Gripens main wing in conjunction with its fully movable canards allows for an optimal L/D ratio for all cg positions, Mach and AoA. A luxury the Tejas doesn’t have.
Gripens inlet design also allows for a lower drag compared to the Tejas. The SAAB 105 at first had “armpit” located intakes similar to the Tejas, but they eventually changed it in order to lower the drag, and to get a better airflow to the engine.
exactly my point Victor..its incredible that a guy, with no real knowledge of the Tejas, on an internet forum just prances along and looks at a line diagram of the Tejas and can point out that its not got “classic aerodynamic shaping”..
This is a discussion forum, were people voice their opinions. Right or wrong, that is his opinion. It translates to all of us. I can understand your defensive attitude, but tell him how you think it is instead.
I don’t know how up to date this information is so,,,
Excerpt from World Air Power Journal, Volume 42.
In early 1999, the Department of Defence’s directorate of operational test and evaluation(DOT&E) reprted that the Super Hornet – in its current configuration, in which it entered Opeval – suffered from a number of limitations in the dogfighting arena. These included “limited high angle of attack agility and engagement controllability, poor loaded energy addition, slow angle of attack reduction, slow engaged turn reversal, slow sustained turn performance and high bleed rates.”
A retired Navy fighter pilot with combat and flight test experience sums up these limitations: “This airplane is a dog in ACM”. High AoA agility, he notes, is essential to perform a scissors or other basic fighter manoeuvers. “Limited… engagement controllability” means that the aircraft is slow to change its flight path. Other comments in the DoD report, he says, suggest that the Super Hornet loses energy (in speed or altitude) too quickly in a turning engagement, and does not recover rapidly. Once the nose is up, it takes too long to lower it before accelerating. Turning reversal, described as “slow”, is a primary defence capability.
These points were reinforced in late 1999 by a controversial article by Lieutenant Colonel Jay Stout, a combat veteran Marine Hornet pilot: “The Super Hornet’s shortcomings have been borne out anecdotally. There are numerous stories, but one episode sums it up nicely. Said one crew member who flew a standard Hornet alongside new Super Hornets: “We outran them, we out-flew them, and we ran them out of gas. I was embarrassed for those pilots.” These shortcomings are tacitly known around the fleet, were the aircraft is referred to as the Super-Slow Hornet.
compared to Gripen’s straight leading edge.
It is not straight. There is a crank were the leading edge slat begins, giving the wing of the Gripen a slight double delta shape, if we add the saw tooth, the wing actually has three different leading edge angles.
Actually I disagree with both these views, as the Gripen does not have a ”coke-bottle” shape. Its intakes protrude laterally and are prominent in front of the wings.
The Tejas’ intakes are more blended with the fuselage, and they are under the wings. Besides, the Tejas is shorter, and has lesser wingspan than Gripen, which should give it lesser drag than Gripen. The Tejas also does not have canards unlike Gripen, that increase drag by large margins.
The Gripen does have “coke-bottle” shaped fuselage, but with a long relatively thin tail. The area ruling on the Gripen is pretty much at the theoretical optimum.
The Tejas is not very much shorter compared to a Gripen, but it is stubbier, hardly beneficial when it comes to low drag. And the Tejas wingspan is pretty much the same as that of the Gripen, they differ ~20 cm.
And canards can help lower drag as well, for example during maneuvers.
Edit: A comparison http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/robban75/LCAJAS390-1.jpg?t=1197311374.
it may also be unclear how the Gripen manages a top speed of Mach 2 on the same engine despite weighing 1 ton more than Tejas.
Probably because the Gripen has lower drag, thanks to its longer and more slender fuselage, as well as having a more optimal position for the air intakes instead of the “armpit” position of the Tejas?
Sigh. We’ve already had this discussion, and it has all been explained before. You didn’t get it then, you wont get it now. I wont bother explaining again.
man why you do not understand that it is true static unstability helps however the swept of the delta has the same aerodynamics with or without static unstability, the canards do help but no one has said the Gripen is crap, i just said the true, the MiG-29 and F-16 have better sustained turn rates.
Yes in steady 1G flight the flow is the same for a stable and unstable delta. But the unstable delta don’t need fly with as high AoA to create the same amount of lift, = less drag. And you don’t seem to grasp that an unstable delta/canard turns by pitching the nose, not by pushing down the tail. When in the turn no airfoil protrudes into the airstream, again creating less drag. And compared to the Gripen the F-16 and MiG-29 has MUCH higher TWR’s. But surely that can’t contribute.:rolleyes:
the delta still is not good to sustain a turn rate, that is the reason the Gripen has a 20 deg/s sustained turn rate and a 30 deg/s instantaneous turn rate
That is just a load of dung. The Gripen is an unstable delta with a fully movable canard, not a stable 2:nd gen Mirage III with bolted on supersized strakes. And a ~20deg/sec STR is excellent for a plane with a TWR far below any of the competition.
Some info here. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84527&page=22 Check with Signatory, he’s up to date on Gripen stuff.
How’s this one?:)

Or these two?


The Gripen has two “stops” on its controlstick. The first stop is 9G, the second stop is 12G. There’s also a switch in the cockpit on the right sidecolumn that says “Peace” and “War”. It’s locked in peace setting by a thin copper wire.:D
I’m afraid I can’t help you but around the same time two Viggen’s(SF/SH IIRC) was scrambled to intercept an incoming Su-15. The Su-15 was armed with missiles, and instead of turning back to Russia it manouvered behind one of the Viggens a locked a missile onto it. The Viggen pilot instinctively rolled inverted and pulled into a steep dive, the Su-15 followed. At very low altitude the Viggen made a high G pull-up, avoiding crashing into the ocean. The Su-15 could not manage the same and crashed, killing the pilot.
OK – I was clutching at straws to list the differences. 😮
But I still stand by my assertion – that the addition of canards & TVC engines to the Su-30MKI makes it aerodynamically vastly more different to the baseline Su-27UB than the Typhoon is to the EFA (or even the EAP).
Hi Flanker_man.:)
The EAP may look alot like the EFA. But the two planes are totally different in pretty much everything when examined closely, delta vs dubbledelta, dihedral vs anhedral, wing and vertical stabilizer sizes etc.(it’s like comparing the T-10 prototype with the Su-27B.)
The same can not be said about the Su-27 vs the Su-30. Adding canards, TVC and larger rudders doesn’t take away that these planes share the same(basic) aerodynamic platform.